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Comment by tapia | Hacker News Reader

I am (was) one of those people (allergies and slightly deviated septum). I started to really breath through my nose about two years ago. I always thought that it would not be possible, because I felt that I could not get enough air. I started practicing while cycling to work everyday. At the beginning it really felt super hard (especially since I have to ride up the hill, about 200m altitude difference), but after a few days of this, it was not hard anymore and I started to breath exclusively through my nose without problems. I think that allergies, although still present, are less intense and it doesn't impair me to breath properly. So, just try.

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> I started practicing while cycling to work everyday.

For doing cardio I was told/taught (by whom I can't remember) to generally breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth.

This allows for air to come in through the path that your body was 'designed' to do it, but you can also expel carbon dioxide more quickly (so the theory goes).

That's what I thought too, but after reading the book "Breath" by James Nestor (as others have mentioned in this thread) I decided to try that. And it really works. I think that if you exhale to fast and inhale immediately, then you are not really getting rid of all the CO2 that you could/should. So, by doing it at a slower rhythm, then you get more efficient in getting air in and CO2 out.

I'm sorry, but how does this work? HIIT, for example, gets me up to requiring 40 breaths per minute for the oxygen. There is simply not enough airway cross-section across the nose to take in air at this rate. During allergy season, when one nostril is completely blocked, it's impossible to do for even basic metabolic function.

The whole point of HIIT is to tax your aerobic system. One can easily do work outs within the ranges of energy production that don't go into anaerobic respiration. For example you can do high load lifting in short burst and just use your ATP stores, which generally means for a count of 10 or less, with enough time in between to replenish the ATP fully. Or you can do aerobic exercise at a pace where your body has enough oxygen to always be using glucose to keep up with ATP usage (Zone 2 training).

The original author probably was limiting their bicycle cadence to something that they could do continuously with their nose closed. I personally do something similar while running and weight training. It was hard at first, but your body gets stronger and more capable at exchanging CO2 over time. I wouldn't try this with HIIT though, and generally think that HIIT is a terrible training methodology as it leave you sore and incapable of doing more work outs as the processing of lactic acid is harmful if not damaging to muscle cells.

> For example you can do high load lifting in short burst and just use your ATP stores, which generally means for a count of 10 or less, with enough time in between to replenish the ATP fully

This is true, but you rarely see anyone actually doing it at the gym. It’s been a while but I recall that fully replenishing ATP requires around 3 minutes between sets, and most people rest for less than half that.

You're correct, although ATP is generally replenished to around 70% after a minute, and is muscle dependent, so you can work on another muscle group while one rests.

I generally do a set of 10 or less, wait 1 minute, do another set and then do some yoga for the remainder of 3 minutes. I then switch to another muscle group and do the same. When I switch back to the original muscle group an additional 3 minutes have past or 5 minutes since the last set for that group. This allows for some oxidative stress, which stimulates mTor and thus mitochondrial growth, but also allows me to do more sets in a work out in less amount of time. I'm generally done in 30-45 minutes, but work out daily at home.

While ATP takes a good amount of time to replenish, lactic acid take twice as long to clear out. So you really need to be resting 8-10 minutes between HIIT work outs, or just go home from the soreness. This doesn't seem as ideal if you don't want to spend all day in the gym.

What opened things up for you? I suffer from allergies, and have a slightly deviated septum, and I've tried so many sprays (caused dependency), breathing strips (falls off in the night), and even 3D printed a small cradle that would force my nose to open wider as I slept, which proved to be nothing short of annoying. I'm always open to trying new methods.

It sounds like you need a CPAP machine or the like.

CPAP is nice, but it can be a pain in the ass ; 9 months in I'm still struggling to use it consistently, with heavily deviated septum, allergies, seasonal sniffing. When I can consistently keep the mask on (nose) without feeling like I'm drowning, for at least a week, I get quite the refreshed feeling. Quite rare though... Tried all possible machine tunings, products, herbs, massages, activities... Still not there yet. And the surgeon isn't convinced I'll get better sleep even with deviated septum surgery, says he'd need to correct stuff 'behind' too. There's the 'mouth and nose' mask option but that leaks far more and is even more harder to sleep with...

Seems if you breathe from your mouth when you grow up, your tongue isn't parked up, pushing on your palate, and your jaw and face bones don't grow up correctly and it's very hard to correct as an adult. I get bone and articulation pains with the CPAP machine, since my tongue is now parked correctly it pushes hard...

Get your kids looked at. It's all hereditary for me (deviated septum) and I regret no-one telling me to get it looked at seriously when younger.

I had that surgery, more than once, and I have trouble breathing when I sleep. I'm finding it hard to get a CPAP (I'm abroad in a non-English speaking nation so that's probably a factor). Have you tried taping your mouth closed? If you're definitely safe using the CPAP then you might try it, that's my plan.

Aside from that, I've found yoga and meditation that uses the breath as an object helps with my breath quality when awake, and recently I'm trying hot/cold contrasts (a hot bath and cold shower) as outlined in this Huberman Lab podcast[1]. I've noticed that my sinuses are clearer afterwards. That could be the steam or another reason, it is hard work though!

> I regret no-one telling me to get it looked at seriously when younger.

Me too, I had terrible advice, from medical professionals too. They didn't seem to care so I'm heartened by the recent findings which, even though they scare the hell out of me because it underlines all the problems I face and most likely will face, those walking behind us may have an easier road.

[1] https://hubermanlab.com/the-science-and-health-benefits-of-d...

Oh getting a CPAP was a breeze here in France and I didn't/don't have to pay a cent, neither for diagnosis nor for renting the machine nor the quite serious tech support and follow-up. So, while the rest of the French health system seems to be collapsing, this still works.

And it's (IMO) clever, since it's such a game changer for most of the people I met who use it, many costly ailments disappear. It's probably a winner for overall productivity and a great reducer of sick days and late-life healthcare.

I use to use sprays but at some point just stopped, because they were nor really helping. For some years I just accepted that my nose does not work properly. There were always some moments were I could use my nose but then it would get blocked. It was only after I read a book (Breath by John Nestor) that I started really trying. And it really worked! I wouldn't say that it will work for everyone, since I have no data and this is not my field, but many things from the book make sense and it is worth a try.

You can get surgery that will open things up.

Naturally, this and a CPAP are in consideration, but getting to that point is profoundly difficult without health insurance in the US. I am seeking solutions for relief in the meantime.

I had the surgery to have my deviated septum fixed and it was a good decision. First, I could breathe through my nose. Another huge benefit, though, was that all those sinus infections that couldn't drain kept turning into ear infections -- that just stopped.

The recovery from the surgery wasn't too bad for getting back to work -- I think I missed two days and the weekend. But the healing process gave me incredible headaches for about two months which went away entirely. Mine was badly deviated, though.

What kind of sprays - Afrin type (oxymetazoline)? The dependency on those can be pretty awful. My ENT prescribed Azelastine, an antihistamine nasal spray that has worked wonders for me. It appears to raise the threshold for allergic reactions which can include swelling of the nasal passages. I knew I needed it in the Spring but I've found that if I don't use it daily I snore really badly, so I think that general house dust is causing some trouble. My wife is much happier now that I'm using it again.

Yep, Afrin and the like. They open things up nicely, for a time, then I have to keep using it or I spend a week feeling extremely blocked before returning to my baseline of annoyingly blocked.

I have not heard of Azelstine, and will bring that up to my doctor, thanks!

Ok, but did you try exercising?

I mean this seriously:

your body naturally dilates your entire respiratory system in response to oxygen demand - and not by a trivial amount.

As someone who has a suspected less than perfect septum, and experiences allergies from time to time, I have gone from simply noticing the dilation effect to actively pursuing it as a remedy.

Which is to say, if I stay the night somewhere with indoor cats, I alleviate the symptoms by going for a run …

YMMV. IANAD. HNY!

> started to really breath through my nose about two years ago

How? And despite your allergies, septum that were preventing it?

I did a similar process about two years ago. Started after reading Breath by James Nestor. The book doesn't prescribe anything but gives a very wide perspective of possibilities. I think what really did it for me was breath holding exercises.

This is exactly how I got motivated! The book really helped me. Nice to hear that it also helped you.

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