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Comment by drewg123 | Hacker News Reader

It would be nice if they could offer an option to avoid roads with histories of crashes (like tolls and ferries).

One example I have is there is an intersection on my way home that Tesla maps (and Google maps) wants me to turn left at. The problem is that its a left turn without a signal, across 4 lanes of traffic with limited visibility. This is a recipe for crashes, and I've seen multiple crashes here. However, if you go 1/4mi out of your way then you go under a bridge and wind up at an on-ramp to the same road .. no left turn needed.

It took me a while to discover this route when I moved here. It would be nice if there was a "safer route detected, +1 minute" option presented to me.

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It would be nice if there was an option to avoid uncontrolled lefts on busy intersections in general, aka "UPS mode" which supposedly UPS does: https://hbr.org/2014/04/ever-notice-that-ups-trucks-rarely-m...

I've been wishing for this too. Not fastest or most fuel efficient, but the easiest route. Really just as few turns as possible, but especially avoiding things like two way stops and uncontrolled left turns.

“Lowest cognitive difficulty”

Wise Waze

Ease Waze

Waez

Especially when driving short distances in new cities, a route with fewest turns would be useful.

I would love this. Driving in Seattle is such a massive pain sometimes, and Google Maps just loves to make you take crazy turns across 3 lanes of traffic when there's a ramp or a light two blocks away. My partner who has lived here her whole life is always telling me that I'm taking bad turns when I'm following Google Maps haha

Same in the Bay Area. Google maps was always trying to get me to take crazy turns instead of the straightforward way. Save 30 seconds by going on the 101 for an eighth of a mile instead of just driving straight on el Camino. There were a bunch of places i thought were far away because of the crazy routes that turned out to be really convenient to get to once the crazy uncle shortcuts were left behind.

Unprotected left turns into El Camino are the worst. There is always a light two blocks away in some direction.

It's in Google's backyard. How they get this one wrong is puzzling.

The option to "avoid difficult intersections" should get you most of the way there

https://www.pcmag.com/news/waze-wants-to-help-you-avoid-diff...

At least in Australia, this doesn't avoid many uncontrolled right (same as left in freedom land) turns across 4-8 lanes of traffic.

Apple Maps has this mode at least when picking a route. It usually gives a fastest and a fewer-turns option.

I’ve also found their turn by turn directions less stressful to follow than google maps because they announce like a human codriver not like you’re an AI. At least a few years ago it felt like Google Maps didn’t do the whole “go through this light then at the next one turn left”, which is easier than a last minute “turn left now!!”

I've gotten this sense as well, but have been trying to convince myself that it's just me thinking that the "grass is always greener". It's crazy to think that Apple maps might actually end up being what makes me finally ditch Android.

I've been leaving feedback in Google Maps with exactly this suggestion every time it takes me to one of those dangerous left turns. If presented with one on my route I always take a right and then do a u-turn.

> If presented with one on my route I always take a right and then do a u-turn.

Sometimes called a "Michigan left." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_left

Google maps has not been getting the hint at forbidden left turns :/

I'd guess that if you consistently avoid a left turn it could be because it's forbidden instead of because you miss it every single time. It's safe to assume that by now they take this kind of implicit feedback, but it either takes a long time to be processed or it's not happening on time-restricted left turns..

It's bizarre that TikTok can genuinely determine roughly what I am in the mood for within a few videos, but Google Maps can't learn my preferences based on how I travel. The former seems far, far harder - and Google has almost my entire location history recorded from the last 10ish years!

What benefit does Google get from improving Maps? Does it make them more money? They get location data even if you don't use Maps.

They show ads in the maps app, so that effects revenues

For iOS, google maps is very often the only way google can geographically target you with accuracy for better ads, as users will deny location requests to the other google apps

Google doesn't care. Maps is there to sell ad space to companies, you're the product, not the customer.

To highlight this, it is literally impossible to choose your own route. Google will randomly redirect you, will keep nagging, while you constantly have to click 'no'.

For example, let's say you are driving from New York to California. There are two main paths, dictated by the mountains.

Google knows this, and lets you pick the southern, or northern route.

The southern route is 5 hours longer, but gee, no snow! Google doesn't have "avoid snow", and 5 hours longer becomes much faster, if the northern route has a storm.

So you pick the southern route.

Congrats! For the next 50 hours of driving, google will happily exclaim "I found a faster route!" and switch you over, unless you click cancel.

This means that you are constantly, sometimes as often as every 5 minutes, forced to interact with maps while driving, or be forced to redirect as google wishes.

This 5 year old bug is well known, people complain about it everywhere, but google could care less.

If I was the product manager on maps, I'd keep it exactly as it is.

The worst thing is for maps to be "silent" when there's a route available that can save you half a day of driving. You don't want that but an average driver does.

You are basically a power user who knows better than the map which is fine, but then just add a waypoint that forces the Southern route and go on with your life.

For the average user, nagging them to get the 5 hour faster route is the right strategy.

For the average user, nagging them to get the 5 hour faster route is the right strategy.

Extremes much?

You act as if there are two options only. Relentlessly nag the user, and not tell them at all.

There is another. Ask the user, and be done with it.

When I click on decline, I mean it. Everyone does. And it isn't just nagging, it literally forces you to click no every time, or your route changes.

When in traffic. In seconds. Immediately. Over and over.

It is a terrible design choice.

Last time I encountered that, I just ignored it and it kept me on the same route.

You can just add an intermediate waypoint on the southern route.

In the browser desktop maps, you can select your exact route by dragging points on the path. I wish this could be done on the mobile app.

Because TikTok is built to be a personalized social media, but Google Maps is not built to be a personalized route finding service. I can imagine adding such personalization will make most of the caches in route finding unusable. I would instead argue Google has a much harder job than TikTok. TikTok getting your mood has no consequence; Google Maps getting your route wrong has consequences.

Google maps has gotten my route wrong many times.

And you noticed it! If TikTok gave you a wrong suggestion you wouldn't even notice. That's what I mean by consequences.

> It's safe to assume that by now they take this kind of implicit feedback, but it either takes a long time to be processed or it's not happening on time-restricted left turns..

I wouldn't count on that. I've been exiting a Costco for years now where Google Maps tells you to take an impossible left turn due to a divided road. Google should have a mountain of data showing those directions are never, ever, taken. Street view shows it to be impossible too.

If they are actually looking at that type of data they aren't doing much with it.

I've been wanting this for years. And just left feedback for Apple Maps for exactly this feature: https://www.apple.com/feedback/maps-ios-ipados.html

Maybe it’s just in my head, but I think Apple Maps is already less likely to suggest left turns than Google.

at least on the latest public beta, Apple Maps will suggest a “less turns” route in most cases. At least it did for me earlier

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2014/04/0... is a better link, which has the full story (not just a paragraph).

Archived at http://archive.today/92Ghx

>option to avoid uncontrolled lefts on busy intersections in general

They could shadow enable this option for people whom they deem need it based on location data. This would be to everyone's benefit.

Waze has an option to avoid difficult intersections under Navigation settings.

https://i.imgur.com/7tvbYw3.jpeg

Nice, I had no idea. I admit that I've never used Waze.. maybe I should start.

Google Maps is stagnant. All new feature development happens in Waze.

Google Maps has more efficient driving routes. I've been using Waze for years, but recently switched back to Google Maps for this reason after I noticed Waze taking me a much further route to save about ten minutes but use a lot more fuel.

Waze has always been the driving equivalent of "knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing" app, IME. It'll take me through weird neighborhood streets that see (and probably SHOULD see) very little traffic to "save" 0.1 mi on a trip, ending with a cross-traffic uncontrolled turn costing me 3, 5, 8 minutes.

I like it for intra-town commutes where I know where I'm going already and just want to possibly try something new, but if I've never been to a place before or want the "works best 80% of the time" route, maps all the way.

YMMV.

Maps will often load faster.

I'd recommend it over any other maps app (e.g. OSMAnd). It uses Google's Maps, but just has a better interface around it.

The tolls option is great. Rather than having an "avoid tolls" setting, it just gives you multiple options and let you decide in the moment. For example, you might enter a destination and it'll give you 3 results:

- 35 min, no tolls

- 30 min, $2 tolls

- 28 min, $9 tolls

Google Maps doesn't understand the concept of "some tolls", nor "I want tolls sometimes, but only if I'm in a hurry or the time saving is significant".

Everything else is just that little bit nicer too.

I love OSMand for hiking and the ability to find routes and keep getting instructions even when you have no cell service is great for that use case. But I agree, for driving Waze is hard to beat. In particular the reaction to traffic data is great.

What I like about ViaMichelin’s app is that it will calculate fuel and toll cost for a route. French highways are very expensive so the longer no-toll route can be a money saver (particularly when you have a rental with unlimited kilometres and don’t mind taking the longer “scenic route”).

Sometimes it’s not even much of an increased distance, just departmental roads with a lower speed limit.

And gas/food is always cheaper off the highway, but I will admit French highway service stations do have fairly clean and free bathrooms.

> I will admit French highway service stations do have fairly clean and free bathrooms.

I recently told my children how it was like to take the highway during summer time about 40 years ago when I was a kid.

They had all kind of entertainment, large tents for families with babies (and free diapers). There also was a sort of large national game for children where they would "hunt the spoils" - get points for actions that reduced fuel use (opening windows, checking tires pressure, etc.)

There are no more such things today, the areas are just overcrowded - but I agree that they are very well organized.

I've seen google maps suggest multiple routes with varying toll costs when driving in Southern India. Not sure what their criteria is for showing them.

My number one request would be a way to avoid counties with a history of civil asset forfeiture. Hopefully having the option would draw attention to the issue and I don't want to stop for food, gas, etc in places that use it.

Would there be such a curated list available, to begin with, including value by year?

There probably isn't a handy pre-made list but there should be court filings that are relatively easy to search. Typically it would be something like Foo vs $xx,xxx since the seized money is on trial, not a person. I'm sure a company as big as Google or Apple could figure out some way to gather and parse that data if they wanted to.

It'd be good to have a way to avoid sundown towns, too. I wouldn't personally be subject to hate but I don't want to accidentally give them any of my time or money.

a) Keeping and curating a list of sundown towns (or choosing some 3rd party who's list they like) is exactly the kind of issue big tech shouldn't be wading into.

b) I'm going to laugh my butt off when they, in an attempt to be neutral, define it algorithmically and all the rich waspy inner ring suburban enclaves that HN loves because "good schools" wind up on the list too.

Why do you think tech companies shouldn't make the equivalent of a little green book available? Do you think they (or a third party) will get it wrong?

> Keeping and curating a list of sundown towns (or choosing some 3rd party who's list they like) is exactly the kind of issue big tech shouldn't be wading into.

I don't see why -- but if that's the case, they could simply offer a way to let users exclude[0] towns the user chooses. As a bonus, this would work for more than sundown towns. Let's say you don't want to go through a town where your ex lives, or whatever.

0: I really mean "increase the cost of travel through these regions" so the app will try to avoid them rather than never send the user through them.

https://www.mapbox.com/blog/uncovering-the-distribution-of-s...

> The problem is that its a left turn without a signal, across 4 lanes of traffic with limited visibility.

this seems to me like a regulation issue. basically that left turn should be either not possible or with a dedicated left turn traffic light.

The option I want is “old people are in the car. Choose a route that won’t make them scream ‘where are you going?? I’ve been taking the same route for 40 years!’”

This shouldn’t be an option. It should be the default.

Ironically, Conan O'Brien visited Waze headquarters in Tel Aviv and jokingly complained about just this problem (although I'm sure it's not the same intersection).

Beverly blvd in LA is like this. And every maps app wants you to turn left.

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