Comment by macNchz | Hacker News Reader

Comment by macNchz | Hacker News Reader

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Generally I agree, we should absolutely design roads to guide drivers into proper behavior, but there are some drivers who are simply way more dangerous than others^, and I'd love to have this feature to know where to be extra alert for other drivers messing up.

I have a fascination with watching dashcam videos on /r/roadcam and /r/idiotsincars (I think it has made me a better/significantly more defensive driver), and seeing some of the videos from places that have fixed cameras that catch every crash just makes it clear that some portion of people simply don't pay attention to anything.

In the 11'8" bridge example (https://11foot8.com/), they've installed a system that detects if the approaching truck is too tall, flashes an "OVER HEIGHT" neon sign, and automatically turns the traffic light red. They even raised the bridge 8 inches a few years ago. People consistently ignore the sign, run the red light, and rip the roof off of their truck on the special bar that was installed to protect the bridge from direct damage.

In the Milwaukee Roundabout example (https://www.youtube.com/@MilwaukeeRoundabout/videos), drivers are coming across the bridge way, way above the speed limit to go sailing as far as they do. Perhaps in this case the road could be narrowed and speed bumps installed, but this is a contingent of drivers who are not paying attention to the road, and the rest of us would benefit from knowing where they screw up.

^As an example, 17-19 year old drivers have a 19-fold higher risk of a fatal single-car crash than 60-69 year olds: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002243751...

The 11'8" bridge sign says "OVERHEIGHT MUST TURN". It's terrible, technically correct, signage, like an automotive "PC Load Letter". It's not clear it's saying you specifically are overheight. At least it needs a colon after the first word. I can see why people would sail through that wondering what it means.

Also it flashes up when it detects an over-tall vehicle, but that won't be clear to a vehicle that's never been there before: it probably looks like one of those speed limit signs that flashes to everyone. And yellow-on-black signage is usually not going to tell you "stomp brakes now", usually more like "road closed next week", so it doesn't filter to the front of brain when navigating an intersection.

The Australian water-shower projector is much more obvious that you have to stop right now or bad things will happen to you.

I also think that watching too many hours of dashcam videos makes you a better driver. You end up getting this sense about where the problem is coming from, before it happens.

The other thing you learn is that uninsured motorist insurance is an absolute must. The number of people driving around without insurance is staggering.

>I think it has made me a better/significantly more defensive driver

I am highly, highly suspect of such an assertion. Watching videos of edge cases is at best a really inefficient way to get good at detecting the preceding conditions.

I'd disagree with you. If you're in the right-hand lane of multiple lanes, traffic is stopped in the left lane but the right hand lane is going through...after seeing this 50 times in dashcam accidents you know that there's somebody making a blind left turn in front of that stopped lane of traffic to your left, and you slow down.

These aren't really edge cases. For some definition of frequent, they happen frequently. There are a lot of near misses...

The value of deeply understanding “edge cases” depends a lot on the context. An edge case where my beta release mobile app doesn’t work on some outdated phone when it’s being held upside down is irrelevant. “Edge cases” on the highway lead to tens of thousands of deaths and millions of serious injuries every year, so understanding them is worthwhile, inefficient or not.

There are plenty of very specific scenarios that are easily avoidable crashes, yet constantly show up in these videos. Off the top of my head:

- Being “nice” on multilane surface streets: stopping to let someone turn across your lane (or turning when someone leaves room for you) is dangerous. The other lanes may be moving at different speeds and drivers won’t be able to see or expect someone coming across their lane from between stopped cars. There are countless videos of this scenario.

- “Thing on the highway”: in heavy but fast moving highway traffic, a foreign object on the road will be hidden by cars ahead until the last moment. Following distance helps, but paying attention to cars suddenly changing lanes a few cars ahead is also useful.

- Backing up at a light: a surprising number of stupid crashes happen when someone decides they’re too far into an intersection at a red light, and starts backing up. The driver behind them assumes they’re checking their mirror, but they’re not! I honk and flash my lights proactively based on having seen this fender bender happen in so many videos.

- Mismatched turn lanes: people are terrible at knowing which lane they’re going into in a multiple-lanes-turn-the-same-way intersection.

“Warning: teenagers at the wheel” (in the style of “children at play”)

I have a feeling this would be considered unacceptable ageism elsewhere, but Japan requires some drivers to display a sticker which indicates to "other drivers that the marked driver is not very skilled, either due to inexperience or old age".

For the Young/New: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshinsha_mark

For the Elderly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C5%8Dreisha_mark

This is also the case in Ireland and the UK for newly full licensed drivers.

Not in the UK, well at least not in England. "P" (for "just Passed the test") signs are quite common on cars but absolutely no requirement for a newly licensed driver to get one.

Sometimes this is self evident:

For the Young/New: souped up fart can cars / Econobox

For the Elderly: Pale Blue Lincoln Town Cars

But I would like to see these stickers in the U.S. too, along with Germany's much tougher driver education requirements.

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