Ask HN: Do others with young kids prefer work to holidays? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Do others with young kids prefer work to holidays?

30 pointsavidphantasm63 comments

My wife and I both work full time in technical/scientific jobs that we both trained a long time for. We like our work, generally speaking. We also have a history of liking to take time off to travel, etc.

However, since having a kid four years ago at ca. 40yo, we no longer enjoy extended time off when there is no childcare. It’s not that we don’t enjoy spending time with our kiddo, but it’s a lot more work, without any of the benefits of time off (sleeping in, taking naps, staying up late to do hobbies). Simply put, we get our asses handed to us every day.

At best we are ambivalent about holidays and even vacations. At worst, we dread extending periods of time off without childcare. I know we are very fortunate to have good-paying jobs with generous (by US standards) time off, so this is definitely a problem of privilege.

I wonder if anyone else feels similarly?

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Probably everyone with a job they like better than the actual work of caring for a child has felt the same way. I've been an engineer for 30 years and a parent of three daughters for the same period, so those are my bona fides in this discussion :).

The work of tending to a child or three does not make your life more magical and fun and fit for transcription onto a greeting card. If it did we wouldn't so often think of it in terms of sacrifice. And you are sacrificing: your time, freedom, sometimes your peace of mind.

As parents we don't engage in this labor because it suddenly makes our vacations ring with poetry and glow with the golden light of an autumn afternoon. I think we mostly do it because we've brought a new small human into the world, and if you have an ounce of empathy and affection for this little person that cannot fend for itself then you want to protect it, nurture it, ensure its survival. These are powerful instincts. They are also important responsibilities.

If you follow through on them, do the work, and you're lucky to live long enough then one day you'll know your child as an adult who will be a friend rather than a dependent. You'll spend time together as equals. You'll be able to take vacations and enjoy them without disruption. You'll be able to sleep later, even though your body won't want to. You'll definitely take naps and will probably have hobbies. And then grandkids may come along :).

But in between there's the work. It's only about a quarter century's worth. It's definitely not always fun. It's sometimes memorable, and often heartwarming in a way that intensifies with memory and retelling. Ultimately it's just the stuff that needs doing when we create new humans. Best of luck with it! Every parent can use a little of that.

I wish I could upvote more than once. Thanks for this perspective!

You can have hobbies and fun even with children! Not as easy as without but definitely possible! For me the biggest sacrifice was giving up my peace of mind… I used to be relaxed and care free… now I constantly worry for the well-being of my son!

When I was in my 40s I asked my Dad when I would stop being constantly worried about my kids, and he said that he still worried about me :).

Not entirely true. Like, the way you do anything brain intensive has to be limited if you want to engage with children. We used to love playing board games, now we either play boring ones, or we selfishly play an interesting one and the child doesn't understand anything. Sometimes that's acceptable, other times we feel way too guilty.

> But in between there's the work. It's only about a quarter century's worth. It's definitely not always fun. It's sometimes memorable, and often heartwarming in a way that intensifies with memory and retelling. Ultimately it's just the stuff that needs doing when we create new humans. Best of luck with it! Every parent can use a little of that.

A great summary that echoes my experience.

This may seem contrary, but spending more time with your child, not less can help your happiness and your wife's.Avoid associating negative feelings with your child. She's learning and needs you to help her. It's not easy but you can do it and you will get long term deep satisfaction from that work. Look for ways to understand your chuld and contribute to her learning and adapting to the world. Proven fact that quantity of time with your child not quality is more important to bonding and healthy child development If you are going to have any family happiness or long term healthy bonding you must learn to fully incorporate and embrace your child into your life. Accept the fact that your life as an independent couple is over - if you keep fighting that you will never be happy. Children are not hobbies but a life's work. While your bond with your wife should be a priority, you are now a family of three, work to embrace that. Avoid negative thoughts and focus on the moment and the goals your family together are working towards. True joy can be found in satisfaction of contributing to a new life being formed. Read up on child development. She's establishing her independence which will serve her well later in life. Teach her gently safe boundaries and guardrails to learning the world around her, as well as areas she can explore with curiosity. Children grow up quickly and what seems like drudgery will have many payoffs when she's older.

It sounds like holidays aren't the problems. What you actually seem to dislike is parenting. That is to say, it's not the lack of work, it's the lack of someone else raising your child. Framing the question correctly may make it easier for you to find the answer.

Parenting is difficult, often much more difficult than a professional job. You can find ways to trade naps and late nights with your spouse, and find ways to incorporate your child into things you enjoy doing to ease some of the strain.

Reality is that life as a parent is different than life only taking care of your own needs. It's not going to be the same, and hopefully you realized that when you had a child. A certain amount of dealing with this is going to be accepting that and learning to be ok with it, or even happy about it.

Maybe some will feel similar to you but I think it's a minority.

The fact is that working in some kind of white collar job is much, much easier that being at home with one or more young kids. If somebody tells you otherwise then they either lie or are have older children or their work conditions are very bad.

However the difficulty doesn't really matter. Your choice is between time with your kids and time away from your kids! Please, consider that discussion from yesterday about how short life is and that you only have a finite amount of holidays to pass with your kids. Think a little about it and maybe you'll avoid childcare on your holidays from now on.

>The fact is that working in some kind of white collar job is much, much easier that being at home with one or more young kids.

In the instantaneous sense, this isn't true. Putting frozen chicken nuggets into an air fryer is easier than debugging a race condition in an asynchronous service.

Taking care of kids is hard in the same way as long-distance driving. It doesn't even require your full attention most of the time. What's difficult is keeping your attention up for hours, with no lapses.

A couple of years ago, I had to call Poison Control due to a brief lapse in attention. My daughter had been going through her diaper bag, which didn't concern me too much. A few minutes later, I found her chugging diaper cream out of the bottle. A quick call confirmed there wouldn't be any ill effects, but it was a tense few minutes until I'd confirmed that.

Seems like your problem is your kid being singleton with nobody to play with. I can't imagine spending every waking minute trying to entertrain my kid, which is one of the reasons I have two kids, so they have each other and can for sure play better together than with me an adult.

The problem with work and kids is I wanna rest after working and playing with kids ain't exactly resting, if I had option whether just not work and play with kids I would for sure like that. For me even paid vacation ain't option, if take vacation my income takes hit, so I am most of the time forced to work even during vacation. So yes, I would enjoy paid holidays with my kids without worrying about job waiting for me or losing money. If you have paid holidays/vacation, can enjoy time with your kid and you still prefer work over spending time with your kid I think maybe it would not be baid idea visiting psychologist.

> you still prefer work over spending time with your kid I think maybe it would not be baid idea visiting psychologist.

This is completely off base. Not everyone has to love watching their kids for extended periods. That doesn’t make them broken.

> I wonder if anyone else feels similarly?

Oh, definitely. Work is definitely more relaxing than taking care of my two kids (4 YO and 1 YO). For example, at work, if I feel like taking a 10-minute break and quietly having some tea, I just... can. No need to coordinate with my wife to cover me.

I think that's a core part of parenting: you shift from a "consumer" of fun (TV, reading, hanging out with friends) to a "producer" of fun for your kids.

My own tip: taking the kids out (to a museum, playroom, etc.) is actually LESS work than being at home, IMO. When you're at home, you need to think of new activities whenever the kids get bored. But when you're at the museum, there's just the 1 activity, and the museum itself does a lot of the heavy lifting.

When I was a kid my parents did not constantly tried to entertain me… even when I was 4 I played by myself… non need to have an adult helping with it!

That's a shame. As an empty-nester I'll advise you that it's all over hardly before you realize it's begun. It goes by that fast. I knew to make the most of the time I had with my kids and it still went by fast.

The good news is we have the holiday traditions and they all come back home for the holidays. You might want to take a listen to Harry Chapin's song Cats in the Cradle. You don't want to be that guy.

That’s fine. But here is the analogy I use (with 5 young kids): time with young kids is amazing. It’s like sugar. It’s wonderful.

But the problem is, that sugar just keeps pouring in. More and more than you could ever eat. But you feel guilty and judged if you don’t eat it. And even if you like sweets, eventually you get sick of sugar and need something else - some time to yourself.

The OP isn't talking about time to themselves - they're talking about working through the holidays to avoid spending time with their kid. To be frank, this is a form of child abuse.

I've raised three kids. I know the importance of getting some time to yourself. I know there are times kids can be chaos. I know you're all-too-frequently operating on insufficient sleep. I know they can be very trying of your patience. I also know I spent every holiday with them - and now they spend them with me.

> working through the holidays to avoid spending time with their kid . . . is a form of child abuse.

Wow. I couldn’t disagree more. This is some weird holier-than-thou helicopter parent stuff.

I watch my kids all day on the weekends and on the holidays. Plus I’m with them for at least four hours a day between drop offs, dinner, and homework/after dinner activities.

The post is about “extended” time off with the children - e.g. the week between Christmas and new year’s day. No definition of “child abuse” encompasses sending your kids to daycare for that week.

In most cases sane parents who have their young (<5-6 year old) kids in that week are going to wind up putting them in front of the TV or other electronics for part of the time anyway, just for their own sanity. In that case they are better off at daycare for that time.

Beyond that, it’s much better for the kids to have a couple of extra days of daycare and parents who are enthusiastic to see them, rather than a few days off with parents who are pulling their hair out trying to find non-tv and non-electronic ways to entertain them for something like 10 straight days.

Come on.

Dude - if you can't spend a week with your kids then you need to up your game in your parenting skills. Seriously.

I'm sorry but parenting is a 24x7 job 365 days of the year. No one asked you to do it, you chose that yourself. But now that you've made that choice you gotta man up.

And yes, wanting to work so you don't have to be with your kids is a form of child abuse. Sorry not sorry you don't like hearing the truth.

The OP and their partner are 40 years old.

They had plenty of time for themselves.

They'll have plenty of more time in retirement.

I understand where you are coming from! But I relish the time off - now that I've come to terms with the fact that nothing will actually get 'done' and most of the time will be 'working' as child care.

Pre kids I was always building stuff, gardening, a little DIY and loads of drinking and eating out.

Now free time is either being pretty "unproductive" with the kids entertaining themselves but still needing watching, or doing the stuff they want to do.

It doesn't last long - and whether you do it or someone else does the kids will need someone to play with them and look after them - focus on supporting them to develop while remembering that you actually have near zero control over how they turn out.

And honestly, a 2nd child can massively lighten the load if they get on (or make things twice as hard if they don't...)

If you didn't have to work, would you feel differently?

I find outside the US, where there is perhaps less focus on career, family is more of a primary focus. Personally most of the dread I'm familiar with is because of obligations elsewhere. Not having this obligations frees me to cherish time with kid, even if it's rough.

Kids are absolutely a lot of work. I find they are very reflective of the work, and the quality of the work, you put in. In America a lot of childcare is outsourced, which always felt strange to me.

Then again some people don't want to be full time parents, or parents at all, but still have kids. I don't totally understand that. If money were no object, I'd trade work for being with my kids full time in a heartbeat.

As someone who also had kids too late, that's a symptom of having kids too late. Not only are you more aged and worn out but your parents are also too old or dead by forty to provide consistent childcare relief in those situations. I had my first kid at 37 and it was really weird because i got to watch my parents go from kind of ok to assist with childcare to unable to do a ton as i got to 40 and they got into their late 60s. If you are kucky enough to have parents that can provide childcare use your holiday to visit them and take advantage of that, they will probably like seei g your kidbin small doses and the breaks make the holiday wonderful

Come on… 60 you are still “young”! Just got my first child (I’m 36yo) and my parents are keeping him whilst me and my wife are at work (they are both 72) and doing pretty well!

You got lucky. With how obese north america is on average this usually isn't the case.

How old are you kids? Can you incorporate them into your hobbies?

Sometimes I have to force myself to take a little time and remember that these times are impressionable to my kids. They are gonna remember holidays. Maybe not perfectly but the gist them.

What did we value? Spending time with them? Something else?

It can be a good (but hard) thing to disengage and remember what’s important.

4.5yo and very strong-willed. It’s hard to get her to do anything she doesn’t think she wants to do.

It will get a bit better next year. What I suggest is lots of play dates. you can hang with another adult and they can self entertain

Holy crap, playdates! As a parent of a single child, playdates are to best solution. You can talk to an adult, sometimes over a glass of wine and the kids entertain themselves. Change of scenery is great.

I never had a play date my entire childhood… I don’t think it was something that existed back when I was a kid. All the lone children I know used to play by themselves!

Seems common for single children. They often rely on their parents for engagement.

Lone child… my parents never played with me! Always played by myself!

I have 5 kids. It got way, way easier for mine around ages 5-6. Not only can they play on their own, they can do much more complex activities with you (hobbies, chores) and are much better at controlling their emotions.

Does she see you doing things that you enjoy? Or even things that you have to do that you can bring her into?

Even things like dishes, housework, going on walks—these are things that you can encourage them in. They can see your joy in them.

We do this with walks—it's also one of the main reasons why we have a Switch game console. Games like Mario Kart 8 are fun for the older kids but even younger kids can "play along" and not be a burden to the rest of the folks playing.

What's counter intuitive in some of this is that initially your enjoyment in these things _will be lower_. You're gonna have to slow down your walk. Take extra time to explain things. Let them try and fail. Sometimes you'll have redo what they've done. But what matters most is that they are included. They are part of the family—and their time with you and with the family is valued.

I have many children. I consider my employment my relative vacation time and my home responsibilities my life's real work.

It's the most rewarding work you can do, and runs about 20 years. But with fruits much much longer. Man up and do it right, and the rewards will be plentiful.

Travel is typically additionally stressful as we don't have our home's amenities to assist and so it's much more intensive than our relatively safe home environment.

Shower them with love and time. Child care will not, so this part is up to you.

I can feel the same thing, but may be not to the level you write about.

I miss the vacation (holidays where one can relax). Having a 3 year old with us, as enjoyable as it is, keeps us always on guard for attending to his needs, and a lot of time keeping him entertained. That can be tiring if done for long.

During regular times, we have him when we don’t work, and the weekends. Having relatives or grandparents nearby to give even small breaks would help immensely, but as both expats we don’t have that luxury. When the grandparents visit and give us a few hours break, it feels so nice that I can’t describe how thankful we feel.

Sure, we get a babysitter to be with him about once it two weeks so we can have a little social time, but that just doesn’t stop me from feeling like you described..

Our friends who also have kids, but with grandparents nearby to help don’t feel this way.

Completely understandable. We have two, a 7yr old and a very energetic 3yr old. The age difference is a bit of a challenge. They mostly want different things, so we often split up in pairs. Looking back, having only one child was such a walk in the parc. ;-) J/k of course it‘s hard, but you can more easily create rest periods for your partner by just taking turns. We love our kids, but they’re a ton of work!

I have no children, but I wonder if my father felt the way you do.

We never wanted for anything, and he was always present, but my father kept us busy away from him as kids. Now that we’re grown up he doesn’t understand why we don’t want to spend much time with him, but always make time for our mother, stepfather and grandparents. There’s love, but the closeness just isn’t there.

It never felt like my father wanted to spend time with us or if he did it was time limited and on his terms. I think it irreparably damaged our relationship. He seemed more interested when we were teenagers, but teenagers generally aren’t that interested in hanging out with their parents.

Making you forget your kids exist outside of lunch hour is why Club Med can charge a gazillion dollars over a hotel. If you're not into resorts/cruises why not send your kid to a camp so you have some proper time off?

Kicking them out to grandparents/extended families is also a very popular way to claw back some lost sanity every year.

Engaging with small children is an actual skill set. - Play dates have been mentioned, and those are great ideas. - Go for a walk or a hike. Start small, take a water bottle. See if you can go longer next time. Have a theme: can we find a toad, shelf fungus, beetle, duck…? - Take advantage of library story time, check all local libraries - Join the local pool, there is nothing that will cheer up a grumpy 4 year old like swimming, and they sleep well afterward - Bath time can be any time and an hour long if they are having fun - Read picture books from the library and take them back when you’re tired of them - Give them simple tasks like tearing lettuce for dinner, folding wash cloths and towels, putting away books or toys when you’re done with them. 4 year olds are eager to help because that makes them feel big. - Ride the bus for a loop and talk about what you see - Do a collaborative drawing (look at artful parent website) - Learn a song with motions. Invent new words and motions for it. - Playdough - Watercolors - Kick and throw balls - Enormous cardboard box with markers and dollar store stickers - Puzzles - Puppets (read the bio of Mr. Rogers for inspiration) - Silly music dance party

Hopefully you will start a virtuous cycle of positive and fun interactions, so you aren’t so fatigued by the end of the day. In 2011, I left my software engineering career to be a stay at home, homeschooling mom to (now) 4 kids. I’m old too.

Whatever I achive professionally, it's always dwarfed by a smile or some new silly thing my child does or says

Especially after quitting a job, you realize the time spent on the job the past few years were nothing compared to that little thing running after you, that you can create a meaningful lasting relationship

Of course it is also a balance, sometimes I also need to focus, and I will look to be away in silence

Yes it’s hard and I have two. Here’s what I do

Take some of your time off when her school is in session so you actually get time off

When she does have long unavoidable time off, take her to family so your parents or uncles/aunts can share the fun and give you a breather

If you’re well off enough, get a temp full time nanny to accompany you on your vacation

How do you manage that? In the USA the school coverage is so spotty they get like 5 weeks off in between the school year. That burns all my vacation and then some

5 weeks? In Italy summer vacation alone is 15 weeks!

I know where you're coming from, I have an 8 month old. I work from home so I tend to find I'm doing various stuff for the baby like changing nappies or doing the washing. So when it's interrupting my work I get annoyed. I then stop work at the end of the day then I've still got baby stuff to do. Also there is the weekend where I need to do DIY or other chores. So there is the frustration. But now it's holiday season it's not really an issue as it's not disrupting my work and I do get a break unlike the normal working week.

I feel you. Parenthood is not my natural state. Holidays are often difficult. It's made worse because my wife has some chronic issues and periodically, like last Thursday, requires surgical attention. I have to keep things together so she can rest and recover. Having a kid has changed all of my plans for the foreseeable future and sometimes it stings. My wife is worth all of it though and that's how I keep it together (as much as I'm actually able to).

No... Shit, no man. <<Office Space Lawrence scene>> You priorities are backwards.

I understand that it’s hard to take care of children… but I still prefer to be exhausted after a day spent with my son than after a day at work!

You’re almost there. Once they get to school age it gets easier.

Right now If you have enough money hire a nanny. You may be able to find someone for a couple hours everyday and that might help.

Also hire a cleaner/house keeper etc if the day to day chores are also interfering.

Some cruises include a kids club and there are sleep away camps in the summer.

I never had kids but few times while I was on vacation, I have seen families with kids around toddler age or a little older, trying to control them frantically, even I wanted to get away from that environment. I am quite sure their parents would love to be at work instead feeling everyone's hateful stares upon them. Really, families with kids under their teens, should not vacation on resorts or anywhere there are substantial amount of people. Going to grandparents' beach home etc. is fine but you do nit have right to spoil everyone's paid thru the nose vacation.

Good news is it will get better. Bad news is it will get worse first :-) The terrible twos (2-4 yrs) is a challenge as your little monster(s) learn civilized behavior. Then all is good until they become rebellious teenagers glued to their phone and think you know nothing. At long last they will go off to college (or the military) and eventually return as adults. Finally they will have kids of their own and you will be laughing at them and enjoying your grandkids who you can send home when you need a break. PS Looking back this will all have happened in the blink of an eye.

Same boat. We both count the days towards Jan 3rd when the daycare reopens. I guess it's probably because there aren't many common activities I can have with my two year old.

I'm going to assume your kid is on the other end of 2 from my daughter, even though I have no basis for that.

The "terrible twos" are the year where a child changes from a baby into a person. You would think it happens slowly, but it actually happens in fits and starts.

Your kid starts refusing to eat anything but chicken nuggets and cheese puffs. They start ignoring their favorite toy for one you didn't even know existed. They insist on doing literally everything. (No, you can't use the belt sander. Please put the knife down. You can't drive, you can't even reach the pedals.) They are overjoyed to help with anything except what you asked. They won't stop grabbing the enraged, growling cat. They color on your bills, letters, books, and anything else within reach.

They refuse to watch anything but Paw Patrol. Nothing. But. Paw. Patrol.

Then they say "You're a good dad, I love you," out of the blue. They bring you things you need, even if you didn't ask. You type on your laptop, and they type on their "laptop" next to you. They pretend to make you a 6 course dinner. They go from absolutely refusing to ever sleep in your bed to explicitly demanding it every night.

Around this time last year, I played with blocks with my daughter. She would add single blocks to what I'd built and occasionally knock it all down. After a few minutes, she'd get bored and wander off. A few days ago, she asked me to play with the same blocks. She brought the bag, unzipped it, dumped them out, and started building a structure on her own. She was upset when it fell, but still liked knocking it down. She asked me for specific blocks and thanked me for getting them

I guess this is all a way to say that the fun part is coming up. Give your kid all the attention you can and they'll be just fine.

On a side note, a PSA about daycare: get your child in ASAP, unless they already hang around with kids their age. Around a year ago, my wife and I were worried because our daughter was a bit behind in development (especially in language). I could no longer WFH and take care of her, so we put our daughter into a nearby daycare. Almost immediately our daughter's development rocketed forward and has been great ever since.

Lots of recognizable stories in this answer - thanks for sharing.

Plenty of commonality, but you have to go to their level to achieve it. As they grow older, and as the years progress you get to slowly interject your own interests and hobbies into the shared activities and see what resonates between you and them, and go from there.

It also very quickly becomes a 2 way street -- plenty to learn from them at the same time -- one just has to pay attention.

Literally a growth opportunity for all parties if you embrace and then extend! (Frowned upon seemingly with say web browser standards, very positive in raising children!).

Watching my 9 and 7 year old play taco vs. burrito as we speak.

I don’t have children but raising kids isn’t easy. I commend you.

Our son is in his early 30s. When he was young, I did enjoy being home with him. Vacations tended to be family visits. Were we tired a lot? Yes.

Sick days were what I found troublesome, for there was generally wash to do, him to be picked up early from day care or later pre-k or school, and it all seemed more like quarantine than recuperation. Still, there were seldom more than three such days a year.

I'll bring this up since it's recurring: I don't know why people don't sleep enough with children. Sure there are horrible weeks and there are exceptions, but we go to sleep with our children (around 9pm) and wake up at the same time or a bit earlier, so on average we sleep 9 hours (my wife 10).

Of course we have less (read: almost none) alone time, sometime we decide to have a bit less sleep to stay together, but overall if we don't sleep 8 hours per night we are zombies, so we worked toward that.

The only thought is that we do sleep with our children and that seems to help a lot how long they stay in bed? My daughter is 4 and sleeps almost 11 hours per day, while the 2 years old sleeps almost 12, sometimes more.

As for hobbies, that was painful. We can still somewhat play videogames and we are somewhat resuming board games (not the ones we like).

On the upside, we really like playing with wooden train and duplo. Hopefully lego has a come back once the little one stops trying to eat anything on sight.

We balance, on holidays we spend a long time with them, but then at some point in the evening we take 1 or 2 hours where we "kinda" ignore them (in terms of play). They will complain, cry or whatever, but I need some time to hang with my wife too. Usually it ends with them playing together, but sometimes the 2 years old become sufficiently annoying that we have to suspend

Oh yes. Holidays are super exhausting now, but the kid is worth it. I also find work to be intellectually stimulating and relaxing, so not doing it is sort of taxing. I’m really lucky in this regard, having it the other way would be much worse.

Different question: anyone else without kids who prefers work to (long) holidays?

I sometimes (not always) prefer to work over holiday periods because it tends to be much quieter. More focus, fewer meetings, less checking of Slack. Sometimes I might offset my time off by a week or two for this reason.

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