DuckDuckGo now blocks Google sign-in pop-ups on all sites | Hacker News Reader

DuckDuckGo now blocks Google sign-in pop-ups on all sites

bleepingcomputer.com

184 pointselorant82 comments

Unfortunately, I have to take the contrarian view and agree with some of the grayed out (presumably downvoted?) comments here that DDG's search featureset has stagnated and they're solely relying on the narrative of "Big Tech Bad!" to carry their brand and product forward.

"Big Tech Bad!" isn't in of itself an issue and can be a viable marketing message for ad blockers, VPNs, and products in that space. However, I'm afraid the real innovation in search is happening elsewhere; either in the form of traditional search engines (Kagi, you.com) or large language models (ChatGPT, LaMDA etc.)

We have actually been continually working on improving our search results. We're working on a new page to detail major updates on a quarterly basis, which should be live in a few weeks.

At the same time, we've been continuously developing our Web Tracking Protections for our browsers and extensions. We also made a page for that here that is already out: https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/privacy/we...

I can't seem to remove terms from search results any more, and I've tried every syntax I could think of. The reason I tried every syntax I could think of is because I couldn't figure out anywhere on DDG where search syntax is explained (other than !bangs.) I could have sworn there was an easily accessible page in the past that explained that.

You open the DuckDuckGo website, select "Help" from the sidebar and write "syntax" into the search box: https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/results/sy...

The main problem I have with the syntax is that "-" doesn't remove that term from the search results. In fact I'm not sure what it does.

For example, search "cats" and "cats -adopt". The second result for me in both cases is "Cats for adoption".

That is true, no arguments against that. I merely wanted to point out that it is relatively easy to find the mentioned help page.

I strongly second this. Bring back manual control of search results and allow me to exclude words!

Wishlist:

1. Make quoted words and phrases work as intended, please. When I say: elixir "ecto.schema" tutorial, that's exactly what I mean and I want search results to reflect that.

2. Respect the minus sign. Almost every time I use it it's completely ignored.

> they're solely relying on the narrative of "Big Tech Bad!" to carry their brand and product forward.

I don't know, that is kind of the whole purpose of DDG to begin with.

Every company can market themselves the way they want. I’m simply lamenting the choice that DDG has made, in the same way Steve Jobs lamented the marketing-heavy PepsiCo for a lack of attention towards their products.

I don’t think this is that contrarian of a view.

I, for one, assumed that at least half of HN would agree with you. HN has a skew of people that are pro DDG, but not so much that this is all that contrarian of a view

Serious question: what's the alternative? I've been using DDG for 1-2 years now (switched away from Google), but I'm open to trying alternatives.

My rough requirements are:

1. Ads are served based on searches, not tracking me across the web (I could also probably be convinced to pay a reasonable price for an ad-free search engine, but the search better be _really_ good)

2. Something similar to DDG's bangs. And yes, I know I can replicate the effect myself in browser, but that's not what I want - I want the pre-existing library of them.

3. Ability to search a specific site, (i.e. Google's/DDG's site:example.com)

4. Image search (bonus points for a reverse image search)

Kagi. Search results are far better than DDG, and all the customizations they offer bump the quality higher than Google for me.

I took a look, but I am _very_ worried they will drop my account for (as their ToS puts it) "our provision of the Services to you is no longer commercially viable".

It allegedly costs them $1 for every 80 searches. On the 5 days of the week I do my day job I probably average 60-80 searches per day.

Interesting. I have a horrible habit of typing just the beginning of a domain name and then letting the search engine find that website for me. So I end up searching hundreds of times per day. Kagi has not complained to me so far.

I think that clause is in their ToS to prevent actual misuse of the service, e.g. building a scraper. Saying that, I agree that it's a concerning provision.

Note that these prompts can also be disabled in your Google account settings. I find them very irritating so I've disabled it on all accounts I manage.

https://www.howtogeek.com/735152/how-to-turn-off-the-sign-in...

Doesn't that require you to be logged in with Google already?

Yes. If you're not logged in with Google, you won't get these prompts in the first place.

edit: Some comments below suggesting this is mistaken. Sorry, I hadn't noticed that in the past.

Don't you get the other one, about logging in with Google?

Yes, you do.

Not true at all. Happens even in incognito/private windows.

Is this only whilst using Google Chrome? Cause technically most people on Chrome login to it

> Is this only whilst using Google Chrome?

No, also in Firefox and Safari.

> Cause technically most people on Chrome login to it

I don't.

I dont either but most people I know do. I use Firefox containers which deters that dialog if you get the multi account container plugin.

Google has decided to show these popups by default to everyone that is browsing the web with tracking protection enabled since October 2022. This prompt has started to pop in our faces on most sites that integrate Google Sign-In as soon as we visit a page, often covering the content we are trying to view, and the website operators need to take specific steps to change the default behavior. We can only applaud DuckDuckGo for attempting to mitigate the destructive actions of Google.

https://developers.google.com/identity/gsi/web/guides/itp#op...

Now this page is also broken (iOS Safari). The sidebar menu is open all the way and blocking most of the page. No way to close it. Nice work, Google!

The instructions in the “key takeaway” part are wrong. There is no “Google account Sign-in Prompts” option in the "Signing in with Google” section.

They're not wrong, but there are two sections with similar names. Scroll down further to this box.

https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/2-sign-...

Oops, thank you. One is “to”, and the other is “with”.

Thank you, was looking for this long time.

I don’t have a google/gmail account (never have, to my recollection), and this pop up is on nearly every page I visit. I can’t get rid of it because I don’t have an account to change the settings on. It’s made me despise google more than I previously did, which I didn’t think was possible.

Thank you DDG for recognizing this infuriating issue. I don’t care if the search results are suboptimal. I love you anyway.

    div#credential_picker_container > iframe[src^="https://accounts.google.com/"],
    iframe#credential_picker_iframe[src^="https://accounts.google.com/"]
    { display: none !important; }

That's all you need. Covers both desktop and mobile.

Thank you for this snippet. I hate those windows and they seem to always appear on the scammiest of sites.

I wonder if there's (uBlock Origin) filter lists with only separate / specific things like this, which keeps up to date with latest updates/changes.

There's `AdGuard Annoyances` and `Fanboy’s Annoyance` lists (which i assume also have this blocking rule), but these big lists frequently break things unfortunately, so i avoid them.

Does blocking elements through CSS prevent all traffic to the designated site, or only prevent it from displaying?

I do this frequently simply because I find such elements visually annoying. I'd be all the happier if doing so also disabled tracking.

I'm referring not only to iframe elements, but the whole slew of social-share link-litter that's so prevalent on websites now.

> "Does blocking elements through CSS prevent all traffic to the designated site, or only prevent it from displaying?"

That's a cosmetic filter. Look at 'Cosmetic filters' vs 'Network filters' [1]

> "social-share link-litter"

You can block these with a list like 'AdGuard Social Media' or 'Fanboy’s Social'.

[1] https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Does-uBlock-Origin-bl...

Thanks. Much as I'd thought.

Thank goodness, it is a terribly annoying pop up that reminded me of surfing the net a decade ago. What is Google thinking? Thanks to DuckDuckGo for a great upgrade.

Thank god. That was irritating. Now also do the cookie popups.

Thanks. On cookie popups:

* Our Mac browser already does this, announcement for that was here: https://spreadprivacy.com/duckduckgo-for-mac-open-beta/

* It's open source at: https://github.com/duckduckgo/autoconsent

* For our Android app it is in beta, and you can enabled it in settings.

* For our iOS app, it is coming soon, and then we'll work on extensions.

* We're updating this page quarterly for all our Web Tracking Protections across platforms: https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/privacy/we...

Cool, considering switching as well. At first glance so much Apple stuff, thinking that somehow iOS and Apple devices are more privacy friendly is kind of a false analogy. Apple has lied about privacy protections and if you look into it you will find that Apple collects data for itself while blocking others from doing it (from their "ad campaign"). For example, if you opt out of health data, Apple still collects this information in the background but just doesn't show it to you. AppStore has been shown to collect extensive data as well. Don't put all your eggs into the Apple basket.

That ... could be compelling.

Aside from desktop (Firefox), much of my browsing now is on an e-ink tablet. I've found that an e-ink optimised browser, specifically EinkBro, is strongly preferable there.

That browser has some features addressing Web annoyances (adblock, somewhat lackluster cookie and JS toggles), but does nothing against cookie pop-ups.

A DDG browser with e-ink tuning might be interesting.

EinkBro: <https://github.com/plateaukao/browser>

Useful features:

- Paginated navigation. This is based on touch regions rather than gestures.

- Black-on-white mode. Forces a white background and enhances blacks in text.

- A really nifty "save as e-pub" feature. More here: <https://toot.cat/@dredmorbius/107958709435468728>

- A ... not especially good reader-mode feature. (Better CSS styling w/ some margins would help a lot.)

- Integrated adblock.

- Good bookmarking for a mobile browser.

<https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/38e0c53096600139106600...>

As to why e-ink needs tuning:

- Persistence is free.

- Pixels are cheap. (Lots of them, very high DPI, 200--300+.)

- Paints are expensive and slow --- draw power and even at high-performance, at best a few Hz. High-quality is more like 1 to 0.25 Hz.

- Animated anything sucks.

- Pagination hugely beats scroll.

More: <https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/638a8d10e041013afba844...>

I'm not sure if it's common knowledge around here but there is https://www.i-dont-care-about-cookies.eu/

I was just about to post this, but you beat me to it. Now if only google would let you use addons on mobile chrome...

Better yet, there is https://github.com/OhMyGuus/I-Still-Dont-Care-About-Cookies

DDG are really good at generating headlines for the smallest stuff they release.

Haven't seen a headline about them making search better. Seems like every search engine this year got markedly worse. Even the alternatives are pretty poor.

I want to say I'd rather pick an independent alternative, but even that space is bleak. A founder here most famously made a fool out of himself and represented his search startup so poorly and asserting that not only would people pay for his search app, but that it was in the interest of privacy, while also requiring a browser extension.

'Seems like every search engine this year got markedly worse'

Maybe the sum total of available content got worse instead? Will 2023 be better, I suspect not.

If a search engine cannot recognize what content is good and which is bad, it's not a good search engine.

If there was a sea of garbage with some beautiful healthy fish still in it, it doesn't mean I'm going to start catching garbage and passing it off as halibut.

But the model of constant growth required and advertising to cross purposes of your users means that they're selling garbage by the pound and calling it fish!

I have no interest in agreeing that the emperor's new clothes exist.

There are two possibilities:

1. Search engines are getting less good at ranking bad content below good content

2. The good content is getting worse. So bad, in fact, that it looks like bad content.

It may be a little of both. I lean towards 2, though. It’s kind of a race to the bottom in terms of jamming your page with ads, buzz words, and popups these days.

Generally speaking, the web doesn’t have great results for e.g. product recommendations. Part of it is because of how centralized the internet has become.

The best you can do a lot of the time is to just serve mostly Reddit results. But even that can be gamed.

the PROPORTION of content is getting worse

but GREAT content on an absolute numbers level is rising every single year

excepting the death of good content through attrition and entropy good content only goes up unless we're all dead

it's just discovering good new content is difficult, especially when you're a sclerotic barnacle tied to legacy interests of all stripes!

> the PROPORTION of content is getting worse but GREAT content on an absolute numbers level is rising every single year

I’d love to believe this is true, but it can’t be true for every query. How much great content is out there for best gaming laptop or marinara sauce recipe?

Tech gadget review sites are filled to the brim with ads and paid links these days, without exception.

Recipe websites are also filled with ads, facilitated by long descriptions of unnecessary family history to create more vertical space.

> discovering new content is difficult

Indeed, great new content is almost impossible. There are blog search engines which do a decent job. Trouble is, those won’t cover all my queries.

> sclerotic barnacle

Solid vocab choice. Respect.

I also feel like the quality of search engines have gone down, but can we quantify that?

If yes, then how so? Would that be based on bounce-rate, position of the clicked search result, suggestion accuracy... ?

It'll be quantified in their financials slowing or even shrinking

Try Kagi - it’s a breath of fresh air.

Have you tried Kagi? I think you might find it appealing. Especially if you are a developer or someone who is regularly searching technical/code related things. It's really good for that, and allows you to weight/block sites as you please to further improve results.

What content blockers do people use alongside Safari on iOS?

I've been trying Firefox Focus but it's barebones, ad-centric, and doing nothing for cookie popups. Now with these Google popups infesting the web it feels like the 90s again and has made me stop browsing the web on my tablet.

I’m using Wipr combined with NextDNS. It doesn’t block these by default, but I added the accounts.google.com domain to NextDNS.

AdGuard Pro. It’s a paid (one-time fee) app that works almost as well as uBlock Origin on desktop.

Wipr.

I've been using Orion browser for a while. It did not show the Google pop-up like Safari did.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/orion-browser-by-kagi/id148449...

Good riddance. I have zero tolerance for that obnoxious dark pattern.

My dream web browser settings:

    √ Never autoplay anything; not even you(tube)
    √ Block slideovers, overlays, and modal popups
    √ No, I do not want to sign in with Google
    √ No, I don't want your stupid tracking cookies
    √ No, I don't want to sign up for any newsletters

For me I'd add:

    √ No, I don't want alerts from you
    √ No, I don't want to give you my location

How long is DDG's contract with Bing?

Amazing how far they've come just as a Bing proxy but if they are ever cut off, they will be gone overnight.

BTW how do people know they truly are anonymous, has their code/connection to Bing ever been audited?

They weren't just a Bing proxy. They also mixed in Yandex results which were obvious when they were links to Russian language sites.

I hate that one of the results of that arrangement is that 50% of news search results are the MSN version of articles posted elsewhere. Another 40% of the results are the Yahoo version of an article posted elsewhere; I assume that's not a Bing thing, but it's a bad thing.

Nice, but I think this should be uBlock Origin's job.

This just makes average user's lives harder in signing up for sites.

I assume it's just the pop-up that requests you to sign up that is blocked, not when you explicitly want to sign up.

It's useful to inform users that they can easily sign up without having to go through a confusing account creation process and having to worry about the site's security

And yet Reddit asks me to sign in with Google, *even when I'm currently signed in with my Reddit account*.

Yeah, no. It's almost always an anti-pattern that's designed to get someone's real identity through their gmail account

That sounds like a bug in reddit. Did you report it?

Yeah, but giving all website interaction data to a company for "convenience" is exactly not how to make that easier. The logins and account information belong on the client side along with the person; and should be implemented fully on a client (with a separate encrypted backup strategy). The way this whole thing was implemented is so it can be abused.

>BleepingComputer has found that the option is baked into the general protection feature of the browser extension, so when the extension is active, all Google prompts are blocked automatically.

pop-up modal blocking becomes a standout "protection feature" when duckduckgo buys a big native ad to make this seem newsworthy

Barely news, to be honest. Just blocks the annoying popup and the requests that popping it up causes. Google Sign-In still explicitly possible, you just don't get a pop-up. One annoyance less.

...it was news for me. As a Brave browser user, there are a few social media switches in the setting that i have set to 'off'; combined with this - things should be even better (as well as having another reason to go through the ://flags settings). I rotate through my available built-in search engine[s] in Brave, I'll go back to ddg to try this out. Nb - search with all engines this past 18months has been uniformly 'poor'.

Give kagi (paid) a shot. It's been the only tolerable option for me and has been working well even on obscure searches.

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