I used to be interested in what he had to say until I saw this: http://murphysbride.tumblr.com/post/14876601176/bacon-beer-a...
I don't know how credible this is but it leaves me doubtful.
I don't know how credible this is but it leaves me doubtful.
Without checking out each quote, I believe the answer is that it's generally accurate, but you need to understand what these represent.
First, there's the normal crap about taking things out of context...
But more specifically, these are decidedly not things that Paul ever said or wrote. These are things that somebody else wrote in a newsletter that was using Paul's name. That doesn't mean that you should let Paul off the hook. It means that what you should be concerned about is not that he's a racist ass, but that he may have a lapses in judgment, as here where he allowed someone else to use his name without monitoring closely how they used it.
It's worth noting, though, that there are some very strong parallels here between Paul's misstep and President Obama. Consider Obama's association with the explicitly anti-American, anti-Semite minister Jeremiah Wright, and with the communist and terrorist Bill Ayers. Indeed, in my opinion, Obama comes out much dirtier in this comparison, because he refused to disavow those other people, and particularly Wright, who is acknowledged to have served (still?) as a mentor to Obama, shaping his thinking. In contrast, Paul condemns those statements, and there's no reason to believe that he ever took their writers' ideas as guidance.
More discussion of this here: http://volokh.com/2011/12/22/libertarians-and-ron-pauls-raci...
Well, it's not my phrasing.
- - - - - Begin Quote [1]
An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright's sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.
"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
- - - - - End Quote
[1] http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/DemocraticDebate/story?id=4443...
I never understood what was the big deal - it's just someone who takes seriously their religion. (And all of his accusations in that quote are factual. The crack epidemic was largely CIA-fueled as a way to funnel money to Central American rebels, and the rest is easy enough to verify.)
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/12/re-thinking-...
Obama did it with Jeremiah Wright, openly grappling with the past toxic association, owning it, explaining it. Paul has not had the wherewithal or presence of mind to do that. Indeed, he has not even named the association, the first step to disowning it.
But this is false, he did address it four years ago. I've linked and quoted that statement below. [1]
Also, Sullivan goes on to say "And unlike Obama with Wright, Paul got money from these newsletters."
You'll have to make your own value judgments here, but I think Obama comes out worse. It's true that Paul profited. However, it seems clear to me that Obama's relationship with the real perpetrator (Wright, in his case) was far closer than Paul's. Obama chose Wright to baptize his daughters, and used Wright's ideas for the title of his book The Audacity of Hope. This make me believe that Obama had a close, respectful relationship with Wright, and that some of Wrights ideas molded Obama's own. None of these things can be said of Ron Paul with respect to those newsletters.
[1] http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/01/08/idUS233377+08-Jan-...
"The quotations in The New Republic article are not mine and do not represent what I believe or have ever believed. I have never uttered such words and denounce such small-minded thoughts.
"In fact, I have always agreed with Martin Luther King, Jr. that we should only be concerned with the content of a person's character, not the color of their skin. As I stated on the floor of the U.S. House on April 20, 1999: 'I rise in great respect for the courage and high ideals of Rosa Parks who stood steadfastly for the rights of individuals against unjust laws and oppressive governmental policies.'
"This story is old news and has been rehashed for over a decade. It's once again being resurrected for obvious political reasons on the day of the New Hampshire primary.
"When I was out of Congress and practicing medicine full-time, a newsletter was published under my name that I did not edit. Several writers contributed to the product. For over a decade, I have publically taken moral responsibility for not paying closer attention to what went out under my name."
The newsletters are definitely offensive, and are reasonable cause for disliking Paul as a candidate and perhaps even a person, but as others have pointed out, they are relatively mild as far as political skeletons in the closet go. If the media favored him, they could be easily downplayed as have been countless much more serious missteps and outright crimes by mainstream candidates in the past.
I was personally very disappointed when I found out about the newsletters and disgusted by the idea that Paul would even associate with people who would think manipulating racial tensions for political expediency is morally acceptable. But let's put it in perspective--in the last decades the lies and criminality of the US political class have led to the wrongful deaths of millions, illegal torture, vast illegal wiretapping programs, vast financial fraud and unprecedented transfers of wealth to the very richest people in the world, stripping of civil liberties that have been fundamental since the Magna Carta... need I go on?
How much airtime do we see devoted to examining establishment political figures' complicity in these and laundry lists of other history-making type crimes? I'm sorry, but the idea that Ron Paul's lapse in oversight on some barely-circulated newsletters 15 years ago somehow ranks as 'damning' on the scale of political transgressions is, quite frankly, utter horseshit. This is just continuation of the usual program--distract from the real issues and manipulate public opinion through manufactured divisiveness and tabloid journalism.
Considering how small those opportunities were, a profitable newsletter publishing articles exhibiting this level of inaccuracy and racial animus is meaningful.
I think you misunderstand the separation of powers in the US government. As a member of the House of Representatives, part of the Congress, it's been explicitly Paul's job to set policy.
As president, on the other hand, the job is to find ways to implement the policies that the Congress has defined.
We get all excited about Presidential election, but at least in theory, the Executive is less important than the other branches.
On the other hand, Congress has ceded so much power to the Executive branch (e.g., giving the EPA, IRS, FDA, etc., so much latitude in defining regulations) that power tilts significantly in that direction -- although not to that office itself, but to that branch.
And I suppose that it's natural to focus on the single individual figurehead, when the power of the Legislature, even if it really is more important as I claim, is more diffuse across all the members of that body.
We're evaluating individuals here, not branches of government.
The House is probably the most most important single body in the government, and if we are unhappy with the laws, we should indeed generally hold that body as the first layer of accountability.
Ron Paul, on the other hand, is one of 435 members of the House. He does not chair a committee and has chaired one subcommittee for one year. He heads a congressional caucus--that's good--but it has ~12 members and virtually no record of legislation or other action. Separately he has gotten ~1 bill passed in his career and a very small number of notable amendments. He has not been a decisive vote on virtually any issue.
Many individuals have policy powers vastly exceeding this, including not only (obviously) the president, AG, Supreme Court, and perhaps 100+ Congressional leaders, but also (I would aver) the Cabinet, Federal Reserve Board, OLC, JCs, and dozens or hundreds of others.
I think it's very common for people to treat all members of Congress as if they're the same, but Ron Paul is not John Boehner or Nancy Pelosi.
Ron Pauls's power comes from his writings and speeches on various principles of governmental power and the economy. If he's been remiss on that exact front--hired famous cranks like Lew Rockwell to ghost for him and then failed to review his work--then he's mismanaged his power. I'm not saying that he's a criminal in the sense that, say, Warren Harding is a criminal, but it's absolutely relevant to his candidacy.
edit: Ron Paul does chair one subcommittee as of Jan 2011--misstated that.
There have been plenty of opportunities for Paul to sell out, as there are for every successful politician, and he has rejected these opportunities at every turn. Contrast this with Obama's record: a supporter of the patriot act from the beginning, a friend of Wall Street, a believer in empire, in favor of suspension of habeas corpus for American citizens, in favor of the drug war, tolerant of illegal spying on citizens, tolerant of torture. Obama has broken promises and sold out the American people time and time again. It seems pretty clear who has the better batting average.
Paul is far from perfect, but the only alternative at this point is the status quo or worse for the next four years, and believing in that is a lot more insane and dangerous than any of Paul's most controversial beliefs. In fact, when you look pragmatically at the scope of what Paul would actually be capable of as president, you see that he could only really affect policy in the moderate and generally popular portions of his platform--ending permanent war, ending the drug war, vetoes on overspending. His more 'fringe' positions are well beyond the purview of the executive branch, and his principles explicitly preclude him from overstepping those bounds.
Now, I agree that he has had substantial power rhetorically. He has people who are passionate about what he says; his elucidations and opinions have influenced them, raised money, started conversations, and affected the political agenda. That is why it is disappointing that the very little power he has has been used inappropriately in certain instances. If he hired awful ghostwriters who spread stupidly racist material because he wasn't minding the store, then that is not a good sign that he has successfully managed the one area where he did have meaningful power.
Separately: I think you can critique Obama without mentioning things which seem to me untrue or at least misleading, which I think warrant correction:
- Obama has never (I believe) indicated that he's in favor of suspending habeas for U.S. citizens. There's misinformation around that NDAA does this; it does not. If you're thinking of something else, citation please.
- The U.S. torture debate has mostly revolved around waterboarding and unauthorized treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib, Bagram, etc. -- none of these are known to have happened under Obama. Some people believe that the Army Field Manual enables other forms of torture; Obama ordered a full review and asked for all torture to be taken out; if you think he missed things, that's a complex judgement call, not a simple issue.
- On several other fronts, like the drug war, Wall Street, etc., Obama has in fact applied the policies he stated--I'm not sure what makes you think he's broken promises or compromised his sincere beliefs in any of these areas. He's not a libertarian (except maybe in comparison to H. Clinton).
"Batting average" is a helpful term to use, but I think you're not using the right denominator: Paul hasn't been up the plate many times, whereas Obama, Gingrich, Romney, even Santorum have had a lot more opportunities to either accomplish something or screw up.
By the way, I'm not arguing generally that you should vote for Obama instead of Paul or whatever. But I am defending this newsletter "scandal" as a still relevant datapoint on Ron Paul. Not definitive, but relevant.
Some of the quotes were not only written in a newsletter with Ron Paul's name on it, but were actually signed "Ron Paul," and written in the first person talking about why he voted a certain way. And he's refused to name these mysterious ghostwriters who wrote it.
And when these came up in the 1990s... he didn't claim they weren't him or even disavow them! He just said that they were taken out of context, not that he wasn't responsible for them.
I really don't give a huge crap about what it says about Ron Paul's deepest darkest prejudices--I'm a policy man, myself--but to simply try to shrug it off and say "I disavow these things" while also saying things like the Civil Rights Act should be repealed? Call me unsurprised if people are upset about it.
The Reverend Wright deal is a weak comparison. Something analogous would be if, in Dreams from My Father, Obama had said "I wish a Mao would rise in the United States to give the capitalist running dogs what they deserve." And given what he's given shit for... do you seriously not believe he'd get shit for that? It'd be an instant disqualification, even if the quote were taken out of context or even written by a ghostwriter.
he had a 30 year career in politics, if he was really a racist, there'd be some video proof to support it of him actually saying this...or hell anything else to support that...but there isn't
+ then there is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8...
the bottom line, is that if the worst thing that they'd been able to dig up about him, are some comments from ~20 years ago that weren't even written by him...then he is one of the cleanest politicians in generations.
Those quotes were taken directly from these newsletters
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rXxdXLObxdk/TvFkFgQzpSI/AAAAAAAAFh...
It has his name, his face, and says by Ron Paul
He also benefited financially for over 2 decades from these newsletters. You had to write a check to Ron Paul to get these newsletters
example
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vT7kX8KDLI4/TvFnrfhhwVI/AAAAAAAAFk...
So as far as I am concerned, after viewing the physical evidence, I conclude Ron Paul made large sums of money from distributing and claiming at the time to write, hate speech, promoting misogyny, and promoting fringe conspiracy theories, in an effort to scare people into sending him money. Reminds me of how Glenn Beck operates.
Ron Paul's excuses today lead me to conclude he is either lying, or completely incompetent, and would not have the ability to lead a Cabinet effectively. In other words unfit to serve as Commander-in-Chief.
EDIT: I see the downvotes flying in. I provided evidence of the claim. Sorry to see his hero worship is so strong that people will ignore factual hard evidence. Kind of pathetic really. This reminds me of the circlejerks over at Reddit... thought the people over here were a few steps above that base level of ignorance.
let's say you build a user generated content startup. It's one of the projects you built, so after a few months you forget it and go work on another startup. Then while you were 100% focused on your new startup, one of the users posts up some rant on your old one that you barely check.
Should you be held responsible for something put up on a domain that's registered to your name? After all, you made a whole $2 off adsense clicks.
How much money do you think a local ~town/county level newsletter makes anyways? Millions?
Bottom line, is that one lapse of leadership/judgement/what have you is nothing compared to most people...and let's not forget that it was 20 years ago and he has been squeaky clean since then. Which isn't something you can say about any other politician....so either hold others to the same standard...or cut the guy some slack and focus on policy, especially considering the lack of "evidence" in this case.
http://ronpaulracistimpossible.blogspot.com/2011/12/unabridg...
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/12/race-bait...
The new ad from Revolution PAC is pretty powerful. James Williams, a black man, talks about his efforts to get medical attention for his pregnant white wife at a Texas hospital in the 1970s. The crescendo comes when a young doctor named Ron Paul broke through the indifference of the staff to give them the help they needed. Their baby would be stillborn. And Paul paid their medical expenses. Then Williams extols the virtues of Paul — his honesty and willingness to take on the establishment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul#Inter-congressional_y...
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/12/27/395391/fact-che...
He's not racist, as long as people of all colors assimilate into his culture. I can see the confusion: people who aren't part of this culture see that as a set of racist, irrational beliefs that lead to stop-and-frisk harassment and profiling in airports, whereas Ron Paul obviously has a cultural fear of people different from himself and doesn't equate that with skin color except by correlation. He doesn't consider this "racism", and thus is offended by the implications.
We disagree on the terms and on whether or not it is a disqualifying feature for the highest office in the land, but we should at least be able to agree that the only evidence we have for what he believes have been the things he's done or said. That he began claiming he never did them when they became politically inconvenient doesn't mean he's changed his mind.
I wouldn't care what he said 20 years ago if he stood up and said, "yes, I said those things. Since then, however, I have spent more time with people from cultures I had previously been isolated from and feared, as many of us do when faced with the unfamiliar. I now appreciate that theses communities have come together in the face of adversity and are an assets to this nation." Instead he claimed that Not Me did it, and looks about as mature as that kid from Family Circus while doing so.
Thanks, but I can do without his form of 'tolerance'. Anyone else in the GOP is preferable.
The very interesting thing is, why? What is the motivation of such people to bash Paul as a homophobe when there's decades of actions on his part that are anything but? What's the motivation of people to bash Paul as a racist, when he has freely associated with people of every color without any hatred his whole life? When in the 1970s he gave a poor family free medical care because he was a doctor and they couldn't pay? (and it didn't matter to him that they weren't white.)
I'll tell you the motivation. The people attacking paul now do not give a damn about the rights of gay people or about racism... after all, they themselves are racist, and they support a guy-- Obama-- who opposes gay marriage and gay rights and is widely known to be a homophobe, by his actions.
The motivation is that Ron Paul represents a credible threat to change the US federal government to one that protects rights of the people, limits itself from controlling the economy, and lets people be free to pursue their ambitions.
This is very threatening to people whose sole career has been peddling influence.
Jon Stewart even called them out on it. Google it.
Daily Show: Indecision 2012 - Corn Polled Edition - Ron Paul & the Top Tier
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-15-2011/indecis...
Quora: How are MSNBC, CNN, and Fox News so united in their snubbing of Ron Paul?
http://www.quora.com/How-are-MSNBC-CNN-and-Fox-News-so-unite...
[1] http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/12/ron-paul-hired-ant...
Edit: I'm curious to know why anyone would downvote this? When presented with direct evidence, is it really logical to immediately push it away? Oh well...
To the commenter below, if you had read to the second paragraph of the article you would have found this:
'Paul’s Iowa chair, Drew Ivers, recently touted the endorsement of Rev. Phillip G. Kayser, a pastor at the Dominion Covenant Church in Nebraska who also draws members from Iowa, putting out a press release praising “the enlightening statements he makes on how Ron Paul’s approach to government is consistent with Christian beliefs.” But Kayser’s views on homosexuality go way beyond the bounds of typical anti-gay evangelical politics and into the violent fringe: he recently authored a paper arguing for criminalizing homosexuality and even advocated imposing the death penalty against offenders based on his reading of Biblical law.'
EDIT: I seriously hope you're not trying to tell me that Ron Paul is a terrible person because one of his supporters favors the death penalty.
[1] http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JXXloeP...
[2] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/28/phillip-kayser-ron-...
[3] http://www.biblicalblueprints.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01...
EDIT: In re to nirvana's misreading of my comments below:
> To claim that Ron Paul endorses murdering homosexuals because some random religious guy who does, endorsed his campaign is a lie.
I never said any such thing. I said that Paul, i.e. the Paul campaign is seemingly directly linked to anti-gay sentiment as evidenced by the endorsement of Rev. Kayser they touted on their website. That's repugnant.
Also, I don't appreciate being called a liar: These aren't my opinions. They are confirmable facts. The campaign was endorsed by a person who wants to murder gays. This endorsement was featured on Paul's website. It's deplorable. I'm only sorry you don't feel the same way.
That's like saying Ron Paul is pro-choice because I'm pro-choice.
1. There is a religious guy who endorses murdering homosexuals.
2. This guy endorses Ron Paul's campaign.
3. Ron Paul's campaign is touting that endorsement.