Amsterdam's 'stay away' campaign targets troublesome visitors
cnn.com
cnn.com
The red light district pretty tame, lots of neon cops and families. The 'coffee' shops are a fun vibe, but coming from a legal country it's nothing world changing. Fun way to meet people though.
Prague, Budapest, Instanbul, Berlin, even Belgrade have a party scene I'd describe as wilder and edgier. In Amsterdam, I recall lots of unimpressed bachelor parties and American college kids, not really an authentic Euro party scene one imagines. A wonderful city and one of my favorites to visit during the day, but if the desired highlight of your visit is nightlife, there are much better and cheaper options.
(In America, crossing the border like that is less effective.)
>Prague, Budapest, Instanbul, Berlin, even Belgrade have a party scene I'd describe as wilder and edgier.
But in those cities if you act out, you'll be punched out. Amsterdam seemed to have a lot of people who can't handle ambiguity, hence needing to literally go into the weed store with weed and literally go to the sex worker store with a sex worker in the window.
(I don't pay for sex, but as a humanist if that trade is going to happen I'd rather it be legal so folks have recourse if abused... it troubles me when it's warped from something done in desparation by the first generation into something glamorous.)
I feel bad for Dutch people. It's also got great coffee shops (for just espresso), museums, parks... it's like there's two cities in one.
I mean look at the article:
>This latest round of proposed measures includes initiatives targeting troublesome tourist behavior, such as limiting the number of river cruises; implementing earlier closing times for bars, clubs and window brothels; and banning cannabis smoking in certain parts of the city.
I was under the impression you should only doing it in the shops, and are risking a ticket or worse if you do it out of the park where it bothers people?
I feel bad since I was a bit wild myself, in the get drunk and be loud sense... but dear lord they're absolutely right to not want a bunch of 19 year olds re-enacting Eurotrip, people don't act antisocial in say, Prague or Paris at the level they do in AMS, but both have sex work and drugs. It's like the European Las Vegas, in that people confuse respect for privacy and autonomy with a free pass to do whatever they want.
PS: The Red Light district, once you're not near the windows, is quite beautiful and there's a lot of small shops and bars that are well run. It's literally like two streets that are "extreme", and the issue IMHO is the type of guy who comes to treat the window girls like zoo animals, not sex work per se.
Anyways, sorry for the wall of text -- I'm ill, and coping by pounding sudafed and water and posting on the internet since apparently antibiotics won't cure this cold virus, and it makes me sad as an autistic person seeing how badly people mess up on purpose when the entire time I was in the country I was petrified I'd offend people.
TL;DR:Some tourists are assholes it's fine to not want them showing up.
How so? I generally feel Dutch people are pretty patient.
But the people I was interacting with were mostly fellow tourists... the few bartenders or whatever I had to talk to were nice folks.
(To give an example, someone from my hostel started bragging he was a Navy Seal, got mad I doubted that, then started telling everyone I was in the CIA, and then threatened to punch me when I said "would the CIA go smoke their brains out in the smoking room? Leave me alone")
TLDR: The Dutch are patient, guys from the Army lying about their MOS to an NGO worker not so much.
Eh, if you are leaving the country soon, does a ticket matter? Are they going to extradite you for a 25 euro fine?
Or skip the fine and make them spend the night in jail unless their "business friends" come bail their ass out.
(I won't pretend my 20s were anything but wild but... you shouldn't party in the hostel, you should sleep, cook, and bathe there and party out in the city.)
Unlike other places where the pub crawls were a separate set of people it was just like... some of the staff stayed on after work? They would goad the folks walking between bars to sing and yell. (And goad the girls to overdrink)
I ended up nearly getting into a fight with one of them about the last bit - he told someone to do another shot, I was like lady you're like five feet tall and ninety pounds and there's like three more stops if you do three shots at each you might die, he got pissed and said "here's some water" and dumped one on me.
Then some Czech guy sitting the next booth over who he'd assumed couldn't speak English was like what are you trying to pull and got amused I was nearly fighting the hostel staff, he thought we were just bunkmates. Told me they should be paying you not him and took me to the next leg of their journey to calm down. Ended up having a bunch of water in the corner of some club I couldn't fully appreciate (very nice club, I probably wouldn't have been let in w/o someone putting me on a list), then walking back near morning to sleep for a bit then check out and move deeper into the EU by train.
Anyways... it was certainly an adventure, and to be clear Prague was very nice outside the party aspect -- I spent a whole day in Old Town just admiring the architecture... but that night kind of Signaled to me I was getting too old for hostels, which made me sad since I didn't really get to travel until late in life (by Eurotripping standards), so it was kind of my last hurrah but... a last hurrah means more like purposefully forgetting people's names and turning off your phone not -- being a huge jerk because you think you can hop a border :-)
Anyways TL;DR: I suspect the issue is often the hostels and/or tour guides actively encouraging people to be antisocial... the party I was with was pretty chill until they got goaded into singing between pubs. It's my understanding a lot of people get woken up by that if it's not a weekend in the old town and adjacent areas.
The tourists are a drag, as mentioned, they piss and poop and vomit all over the place. They decrease trade for the working women and people of other genders in the windows. My brilliant neighbourhood pizzeria closed and was replaced by a Nutella store.
But: most of this is driven by the cash-only bars and the evening “supermarkets” that still sell booze under the counter. Bars that aren’t responsible for street noise, antisocial behaviour or mountains of trash on the street every day.
Get the alcohol situation under control - booze only served to people indoors or seated outdoors. Booze sellers not obeying the law closed down permanently.
But there’s too much money in beer and Desperados, so they’re going to move the working women out from their relatively safe neighbourhood, cut down canal cruises? What?
Get more people enjoying what is a lovely, unique and above all surprisingly real neighbourhood that like it or not is dependent on tourism.
Or accelerate gentrification while the streets are washed every night with vomit in the meantime until rich folk complain too much to their buddies in the city government.
The antisocial situation is not people who’ve snorted chalk dust or taken placebo drugs, or eaten a space muffin. It’s excessive drinking and a culture of impunity of the bars.
Condolences, Nutella is overrated and so does gentrification.
>... most of this is driven by the cash-only bars and the evening “supermarkets” that still sell booze under the counter. Bars that aren’t responsible for street noise, antisocial behaviour or mountains of trash on the street every day. Get the alcohol situation under control - booze only served to people indoors or seated outdoors. Booze sellers not obeying the law closed down permanently.
I agree. But also maybe cite people who piss and shit in public as well?
AMS has plenty of restrooms, people are just lazy little fucks. Part of it might be alcohol, but part of it is permissiveness -- America takes it too far in the other direction and labels you a sex offender if the only person who stumbles upon you peeing is a cop but... fining people three or four figures might help.
(Or throwing them in jail overnight)
Orrrr... raise the drinking age to 21 like in the USA? I got the sense it's mostly Americans who go buck wild, but apparently it's a thing in some places in London they set it higher and that's not the worst idea IMHO.
>The antisocial situation is not people who’ve snorted chalk dust or taken placebo drugs, or eaten a space muffin. It’s excessive drinking and a culture of impunity of the bars.
Yeah, I overdid it on the last one and people were nice -- I took some psychobillin and the peoplke in my hostel started messing with me, so I ended up in the corner of some frites shop for 3 hours, and I felt bad about it.
I think maybe it's something about alcohol? I quit the stuff, and I've noticed it makes people... meaner. Not just in the fighty sense but more willing to do things like... entitlely demand to use a toilet someplace they've never been a customer then go poop into a canal if their don't get their way.
(The best being some percentage of them apparently fall in and someone has to literally drag them out? That's another solution, though maybe too dark... just let them drown in their own urine.)
But I'll shut up and defer to you since you actually live there -- I only visited :-)
Few things to understand here:
- Drugs are illegal in the Netherlands
- Marijuana is 'tolerated' by law enforcement, meaning it can be sold by shops, within certain rules.
- The use of drugs is not illegal per se. If someone ODs, you can call an ambulance and no questions will be asked.
- Dealing drugs (with the exception of Marijuana in regulated shops) is illegal and punishable.
As a Dutch resident, I have never understood why so many (mostly American) tourists visit The Netherlands just to use drugs in Amsterdam.
It has come to a point where cab drivers are now known to offer you drugs as soon as you arrive at the airport (this is highly illegal).
Drug tourists cause many problems and feeds the criminal system. I think it is a good thing Amsterdam is finally cracking down on drug tourism.
If it was legal in their home country we wouldn't have drug tourism. Amsterdam would be just any other European city. It's the allure of being able to consume cannabis in a cafe that is simply irresistible, and a privilege.
As a non-Netherlands resident, I think the city takes it for granted that cannabis is legal-but-regulated and we shouldn't be so judgemental of tourists who otherwise have to obtain cannabis from the sometimes murky criminal underworld, and risk getting arrested or being sold low-quality weed, or worse: risk getting contaminated weed laced with synthetic opioids.
This 100% exists in Amsterdam, just abstracted one layer by the absurd tolerance policy where coffeeshops are allowed to sell to people but the product just magically appears in the shop. Supply is still a fully a criminal underworld.
I think back to interviews Frank Zappa gave in the 1980s where he talked about how the "sexualization" happening in American music, movies, etc was really titillation, IE: in a sense, Americans were so repressed and so juvenile that anything resembling sex, drugs, and rock and roll were too much to handle. Where I live in WA, marijuana has been legal for a number of years now to the point that it's passé. But, if you are a young college student from one of the more repressed states and you go on your study abroad where marijuana is legal and there are barely clothed women in the red windows, it's pretty big stuff.
When we took the kids to Amsterdam a few years ago, we walked through the red light district on a late afternoon. Was tamer than I recalled from 25 years ago when I was a college student - I can see where it's more of a burden to Amsterdam than a bonus, but I guess it lures in a few more tourist dollars.
because for a long time if you used them in america you'd be hit with a misdemeanor and ruin your life, or risk death. any interaction with the police in USA risks death.
I can't tell you why harder things, but we're told in film and media it's a place you can buy cannabis and use it without hassle.
It wasn't until I did a walking tour that I learned it's more decriminalized than legal, and I sympathize... they should do it like in Colorado and actually test the THC percent etc not just say "here's a space cake a gram of cannabis went into".
Food was generally really disappointing, however grocery stores / delivery apps were incredibly useful. The most annoying thing to me was how certain neighborhoods flat out do not accept Visa / Mastercard. Basically every other developed nation accepts Visa, I was annoyed and decided to not go back to areas where they literally couldn't take my money. That said, PUBLIC TRANSIT IN NL IS ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE! But I don't for a second believe many ppl don't get TBI's from bike crashes without helmets.
Even low speed crashes or encounters with pedestrians can result in serious head injuries.
Not only in Netherlands - you would also experience this in Germany, for example. In many parts of Europe, even in their respective capital, you’ll find that many places don’t accept cards and you need cash. If Germany is any indication it’s becoming more common to accept cards but it’s still pretty easy to find places that either only take cash or only take cards above some minimum like 10 or 20 euros.
In my experience some places do take either cash or debit, but I think that it's becoming more uncommon that you'll find this arrangement outside of somewhere like a government office or the post office now, and either you'll wind up with cash only or a place that takes any kind of card. A few places do not take cash but that's very rare. I can't speak for other countries as well as Germany and so you're right it does seem different in the Netherlands (although leading to the same outcome for the OP, that a credit card can't be used).
This is mostly legacy from earlier decades, when VISA/MasterCard would charge around 1 to 3% of the transaction value (and AMEX even higher), whereas debit card fees (processed on the Maestro network, owned by MasterCard) was around a flat €0.10 or so. Since pretty all domestic clients had a bank issued Maestro debit card, where was very little incentive to accept Visa/MasterCard, except for specific merchants (hotels, larger restaurants, car rentals). For most of the country debit cards still work fine, but in tourist-heavy Amsterdam (probably the least Dutch city in the Netherlands) this creates a lot of friction.
Nowadays Visa/MasterCard fees in the EU are capped (I believe at around 0.3% plus some minimum) so the fees are somewhat less outrageous, and acceptance is a lot higher. But on average credit card fees are still significantly higher than debit card fees, there are still many holdouts.
Most of the places aren't for you as a tourist. It's for the people that actually live there. I visited and kept to the tourist parts, had a good time
Legalizing (and regulating, especially health-wise) prostitution and marijuana in other countries would solve many of those problems, and regulation would solve many of other problems around prostitution and drugs (mostly crime-related).
> One specific measure, for example, would target day visitors, many of whom drive in from around the Netherlands, as well as from neighboring countries including Germany, and sleep in their cars instead of staying in a hotel.
The measure is not specified, nor explained. Sounds more like the gov/hotels are annoyed that some tourists don’t book rooms, but want to find ways to make them.
This makes me suspicious that the campaign is unfairly influenced by lobbying groups for hoteliers/etc, rather than a real concern for the local residents…
There could be ne'er-do-wells congregating out there. Or, heaven forfend, there could be ruffians!
Day trip means people return home at night, not that they sleep in the cars.
Gentrification is in its final stages in the red light area, one last demographic they want to kick out and then the land and hotels can be purchased at a knock down prices.
It is clear the initial targets of the 'stay away vision' are the brits, doubtful that any of them drive to amsterdam and sleep in cars . But they are a good scapegoat now we are not in the EU, easy to blame them for now.
To generalise The British ( i am one) are not known to be any of the above traits . But the Dutch have shown everyone worldwide that Cannabis prohibition is a total failure , this is commendable and other countries have followed the Dutch example.
It's a shame that the Dutch are using the British as an example and want them to 'Stay away' the brits cant help it , they have been brainwashed for all their lives by the elite and the right wing that cannabis is bad and alcohol is acceptable, this is a bad mix for the average brit tourist in the Netherlands but the pull factor is too great for the brits due to the close proximity of our nations .
But I think we are an easy scapegoat and deflection for the Dutch elite now we have left the EU, gentrification is OK now in the red light , the final nail in the coffin but at least lets be honest that is what's happening here . For circa 600 years this part of the city has always been 'anything goes' until now because of property owners that want to benefit from sky high capital values of their assets. The Dutch government are only too happy to oblige obviously and the cannabis and alcohol consuming brits are an easy target , they certainly won't get anyone in our government on this side of the water arguing on their behalf.
Ps I've been visiting Amsterdam for 20+ years spent at least £60k on the delights of amsterdam over those years and that does not include solely Cannabis and I don't consume alcohol and ive never felt the need to piss anywhere other than an expensive hotel room .