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Comment by totalview | Hacker News Reader

The data in their nicely colored graph is wildly inaccurate. I have a long range Tesla model 3 (in Alaska) and the range is over 290 miles (it says 310 miles when full, but doesn’t quite get that, even in the summer). This is information you can trivially look up…

I know Tesla gets a lot of flak, but it’s batteries outperform most of the other cars that are listed.

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Are you suggesting there is nearly zero difference in battery range in cold weather? Because that seems like something you can trivially look up as well. Heaters use power.

Plenty of other articles seem to back up the ~20% loss for Teslas, such as: https://www.carscoops.com/2021/01/how-much-worse-is-a-tesla-...

One interesting thing that points out is that internal combustion engines are also about 15% less efficient at cold temperatures.

> One interesting thing that points out is that internal combustion engines are also about 15% less efficient at cold temperatures.

They are less efficient at cold engine temperatures, but more efficient at cold air temperatures. This means that in cold winter, once the engine warms up (which might not take place on short routes), internal combustion engines are more efficient than in summer.

That may well be, but it seems like the 15% is a high-level number that takes a lot of factors into account, such as power used by heating accessories, and the fact that cold air is denser (more air resistance).

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/coldweather.shtml

My original wording was inaccurate, as it's more about ICE-powered vehicles than the engines themselves.

That sounds reasonable: note that I said that on short routes the engine might not have a chance to warm up.

Your source, however, quoted this 15% figure for city driving, I think that’s worth stressing as well. I wonder if they have any data for highway driving. I’m too lazy to Google, though.

I've never seen that happen. I have seen it give optimistic numbers, which are dozens of miles short of GPS trip logs, and worse in moderate cold.

When you say "this is information you can trivially look up", not only does this article reference their own testing, but others, and a quick google shows these results aren't abnormal. This article is on the extreme end of test results, but it is not unreasonably so.

Tesla does get a lot of flak, and unsubstantiated fanboyism like this does not help.

https://www.naf.no/elbil/aktuelt/elbiltest/ev-winter-range-t...

https://insideevs.com/news/498554/tesla-model-3-range-extrem...

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30209598/2019-tesla-mo...

https://www.whatcar.com/news/range-test-how-far-can-electric...

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Long-term-Model-3-testing-reve...

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/testing-teslas-range-anxiet...

Notably: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/disappointing-range-...

etc...

To clarify, yeah, the yellow "70f" bars are just completely wrong, at least from the Teslas I'm familiar with.

It claims a Long Range Model 3 like we have (310mi range) gets 215 miles, a 100kWh Model S about the same, and a 75kWh Model X barely over 150.

They don't list the methodology for the yellow bar, but since it's not experimental (they're comparing estimated and actual winter range with the dotted blue vs solid blue bars), presumably the yellow should be rated range, not tested range.

EDIT: Oh, now I see. If you scroll down to the car, they are, in fact, testing real world range at all temps. Claiming a long range model 3 gets 60% of its rated range at 70f is a bit mind-boggling, though. Ours has over 70,000 miles on it and while a full charge is now rated at more like 290mi, you'll certainly get over 200, even at 80mph.

Sounds like a lot of variance in experience, even in this thread. But if your car isn't breaking down, sounds like you should keep using it! But also be aware of inherent differences in battery performance in cold weather when recommending EVs to other Alaskans

We have a tiny electric fiat 500 for small distance trips. 21 kWh battery. My wife routinely gets 7 km/kWh out of it, I struggle to reach above 5.5 km/kWh.

Driving style really matters. Especially with such a small battery ;)

The Germans would say that you have a heavy foot.

I've had the opposite experience. I live somewhere less cold than you and with my Model 3 I get -35% range when it's below 40 degrees F.

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