Alabama women, 85 and 61, sentenced after feeding stray cats | Hacker News Reader

Alabama women, 85 and 61, sentenced after feeding stray cats

theguardian.com

59 pointssandebert43 comments

Bizarre and disturbing that these women would get in trouble for this.

The reality is that across NA there are huge problems with feral cat colonies that local governments do absolutely nothing about, and the only reason it doesn’t spiral out of control is because of volunteers like these women.

Can you spell that out for me? Wouldn't the cat population self-regulate if food supply was more constrained?

They’re getting the cats neutered/spayed. So they’re doing population control that the county isn’t doing.

The food supply is native birds and animals that have not evolved for a non native species like the feral cat.

Cats kill pray even if they are well fed. So humans feeding them will increase the impact on other species not decrease it.

In 20 generations animals evolve pretty much anything. Enough of this non native bs, cats have lived with humans for thousands of years, and 50 years is enough to adapt to pretty much anything.

They need to be population controlled, so rather than killing cats what these women do is neuter the cats they can and try to keep them fed.

They also try to get people to adopt some of the cats, but there are so many it’s an uphill battle.

Cats are invasive species to North America and are high quality predators. Their food supply is quite large.

Domesticated cats, yes, but I think bobcats and mountain lions are native?

There are several big cats, yes. But I think everyone understood that when I said "cats" I meant "the kind you have in your house" and did not need to be further clarified. American native cats also include the lynx, ocelot, and jaguar. For further clarification, I am also not discussing these cats. You may notice that these cats are very different sizes.

Maybe we can "solve" rats or hogs similar way: feeding and veterinary care.

The real problem is cats are protected. Anything bad happens, and we see articles like this. In reality it is invasive predatory species and should be treated as such!

Feeding unsterilized animals causes their population to explode and dependence on humans.

This is also true for native species: https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/wildlifedamage/don...

> Feeding unsterilized animals

They were trapping and neutering them

That’s what they say!

But the police and courts can see through this thinly veiled deceit. Spotting a cat feeder not intent on trapping and neutering their subjects is police academy 101 material.

Uhh, that's what we train the police for, I guess?

Is this the same reason they also outlaw feeding homeless humans?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/arizona-woman-sues...

No. With humans the dynamic is completely different: The most effective way to encourage woman to have fewer children is health care. Not just birth control but also nutrition and health care of the children they already have.

Then there is the much more complicated situation for countries that takes good care of refugees and economic migrants. (Word gets out and more and more people try to migrate)

How can you trespass on public land? This whole case makes no sense. They're protecting the native species of birds and mammals by getting these cats neutered and are being accused of "property damage"??

I've read into this some more and it seems like the county has been accused in the past of not doing enough about the stray cat problem. It seems like that they've had beef with activists in the past and decided to send the cops in to teach them a lesson

Yes you can trespass on public land. I can't just go in the Mayor's Office or the water treatment plant on my unannounced whim.

I haven't tried the water treatment plant, but I've definitely gone to the mayor's office in multiple counties (usually with a group of us ofc). Same with many house representative's offices. Usually the receptionist stalls you, but sometimes we manage to get an actual face to face

If the mayor were in a meeting - not one where you were invited - I doubt you would still be about to get into that public property without issue.

If you want more examples, you can't go to some public land during certain breeding seasons.

> State and Federal land managers have temporarily closed portions of public land and water areas statewide while bald eagles are in their breeding season. - https://www.knau.org/knau-and-arizona-news/2022-12-07/season...

You can't enter some public land during some events:

> The Bureau of Land Management Lake Havasu Field Office announces the temporary closure and restriction of selected public lands for the 2022 Best in the Desert’s Parker 250 and 425 races in La Paz County. - https://www.blm.gov/press-release/temporary-closure-and-rest...

Here are specific examples of trespass on public lands:

> Three men from Kazakhstan were cited on Wednesday after being observed by three different law enforcement agencies, in the closed area of the Mauna Loa Forest Reserve on Hawai‘i Island. - https://governor.hawaii.gov/newsroom/dlnr-news-release-three...

and:

> the two men [who walked onto Old Faithful's cone] plead guilty to the act of trespassing and were sentenced to 10 days in jail, were banned from Yellowstone National Park for 5 years, and ordered to pay $540 in reparations to the park. - https://sdbailnow.com/what-happens-when-you-trespass-in-yell...

I’m not speaking to the right or wrong of the story or case, but you can absolutely be trespassed from public property.

> Officials accused the pair of feeding feral cats near the courthouse, claiming it had resulted in thousands of dollars in property damage.

Can they prove it? I would love to see the evidence showing feral cats causing thousands of dollars worth of property damage near a courthouse as a direct result of the two women feeding them.

It makes a good video, you know? The cats finished their free meals provided by the two evil witch women, then they gears up all riot geared and start throwing molotov and grenades near the courthouse, counting dollars while doing so. I would totally watch it even if it's longer than 10 minutes.

I occasionally watch a twitch streamer that feeds stray cats in Florida. The only "damage" that I can see would be staining of concrete by food dropped on there. You can see where some dropped food from other people has marked the pavement in places. Would staining be classed as damage?

This particular streamer puts his food into trays and waits for the cats to eat and then removes the tray. No idea what happened here, but that's the only thing I can think of.

At least in America, there's a tendency to endless, stupid junior-high-school-style drama in municipal government.

(My first reaction was to note that the population of Wetumpka, Alabama was 7,220. But I know of cities with ~20x the population that really aren't any better.)

I read the article hoping to uncover what legal basis was used to arrest and sentence them, but all that was mentioned was "trespassing", but at the same time they mention "multiple misdemeanours". Pity they don't list those misdemeanours.

"Roberts was found guilty of criminal trespassing and disorderly conduct. Alston was convicted of criminal trespassing and interfering with governmental operations."

Source: https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/crime/progre...

The courthouse land is owned by the county... Isn't that public land? How could they be trespassing? Also, what the hell is their deal. These good samaritans are doing a public service that the gov't should've been funding but is clearly neglecting. Would they rather these cats continue to explode in population and devastate the local wildlife?

Didn't some of the J6 defendants make the same appeal that they were protesting on public property, therefore could not be tress-passing. Judges are very good at figuring out a way to rule in a specific way. Their new favorite way seems to be latches, and standing. It can get to really dystopian rulings like a candidate challenging the way an election was conducted, being told they should have sued before they ran in the election. But if they sued before they ran in the election, the judge would probably dismiss it for lack of standing.

Did the J6ers get a trespassing charge as well? I thought it was just... you know all the violence they threatened. And the insurrection they very loudly posted about on their social medias...

> Did the J6ers get a trespassing charge as well?

I think there was something like 800 charged, and many did get charged with tresspassing as that was the easiest charge to lay.

Just a quick search shows up this:

"Griffin now faces the same conviction as a number of Capitol riot defendants who pleaded guilty to a single charge of illegally entering restricted grounds."

https://www.cbs58.com/news/judge-finds-january-6-defendant-g...

I always wondered if mass neutering of invasive species (such as a feral cat) are difficult, costly or morally objected to (or any combination of the three). And whether touching to the ecological balance is something we can control (assuming best intent)

I live in a cosy suburb of Paris and we have a large-ish population of feral cats. They are not actively fed (not to a large extent at least) but we also have quite a lot of birds these cats apparently eat. It seems to work as both the birds and the cats are still there.

If the cats are such a big problem why the mayor doesn't get them to a rescue center(or use euthanasia if they don't have money) instead to prosecute the old ladies?

Be it local, state or federal government...People who are part of it, their first priority is not public service but staying in power and that is understandable as they are no saints or 100% unbiased, to think good for others before themselves.... You can name this differrently at differrent places or eras, democracy today...was communism yesterday...Rule of law today was monarchy yesterday....

The headline is certainly ridiculous, but then you learn that it's not just "feeding stray cats," it's attempting to neuter them as well. The article isn't clear on what exactly their procedures were to neuter the cats, but you could easily imagine this crossing into horrific animal cruelty. Considering this was just two random old people, I unfortunately doubt they had access to the veterinary equipment required for a humane operation.

They take them to catch and release centers. Cats are extremely invasive and have already led to the extinction of at least 63 species of birds, mammals, and reptiles.

I guess you've never heard of this before but it's a pretty common thing. The catch and release volunteers around where I live are saints. Not only do they take care of the cats, feed them, and usually give them other medical treatment, but they also protect the local ecosystem

63 is pocket change compared to humans.

well I mean proving humans caused an extinction is probably a lot easier than proving cats did, but how about this:

1.3–4.0 billion birds and 6.3–22.3 billion mammals annually

If we're not counting factory farms, the closest comparison I could find is:

> We estimate that from 500 million to possibly over 1 billion birds are killed annually in the United States due to anthropogenic sources including collisions with human-made structures

Regardless, this is obviously a huge fucking problem. Short of neutering the local humans, these ladies are probably doing the single most effective thing you can do with your time if you care about preserving the local ecosystem

You can count those 63 towards our tally as well. Who domesticated and moved the cats around to begin with?

Are you asking for catch and release centers for humans?

There are many non profits here in Spain that do this with cat colonies, they capture the cats and neuter them with vet clinics and then have the colonies supervised and fed. People donate cat food and medicine to them.

It’s called TNR, they get a vet to do it.

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