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Comment by fullmoon | Hacker News Reader

We Europeans are continually surprised that talking about masks is still a thing.*

Except for 1 or 2 outlier countries masking is over.

* Unless they are familiar with U.S. politics

Wait, are you saying Europeans are surprised talking about it is still a thing, because everyone wears them? Or because nobody wears them?

Just got back from Germany yesterday, and while masks are required on most public transport (but not airplanes), you'll see a decent amount of compliance (50%?) but not anywhere else indoors.

Minimal masking in public spaces on public transport, stores, airplanes, etc in my experience in Germany/France/UK. There's absolutely more masking going on here in the Bay Area.

Unfortunately I'm quite sure it's the latter. Even in Canada, in MTL where I live, on public transit it's maybe 5-6% that is masking. For most people the pandemic is simply "over", regardless of what the data says or how overwhelmed hospitals are.

To be clear, hospitals being "overwhelmed", i.e. their capacity, is a function related to personnel. When our state (WA) fired thousands of healthcare workers for not getting an experimental vaccine that few of them needed (natural immunity is a thing, as much as Big Pharma would like to suppress it), our capacity decreased because we lost nurses. It doesn't necessarily mean that _no beds are available_.

I am a medical resident working in WA state, just spent a month in the ICU, can confirm the shortages are primarily nurse based, not bed based.

Also note that while I saw several influenza cases in the icu, I didn't see any covid.

Btw masks work for influenza too! I plan to keep wearing masks during viral outbreaks. Why not? Beats the hell out of being sick.

I myself don't mind wearing a mask, but in general I don't believe we should force others to do so in most circumstances.

Im fine with that being a public health decision. Given how rarely mask mandates have been used it seems like public health officials prioritize choice except for extreme situations. That’s fair to my mind. At least in the US the Supreme Court has found public health can trump individual liberties up to a point, and that point is usually forced medical intervention. So they can’t force you to vaccinate. But they can levy fines or quarantine you by force if you refuse. This was decided several times but the key case was one where Boston was inoculating people against smallpox. Someone refused because they had already been inoculated and had had a bad reaction. They wanted to force it on him so he sued and it went to the Supreme Court. Instead he was fined for not inoculating. Interestingly compared to the covid vaccine, which had a whole kerfuffle, the smallpox inoculation was actually a pretty unsafe thing. The micromorts for the covid vaccines are extraordinarily low.

Small outlier countries like Germany, where I still see masks regularly in various settings, and where FFP2 masks are either still mandatory in public transport or just stopped being mandatory a few days ago. Also mandatory in doctor's offices, hospitals.

Yes, Germany is one of those few outliers in the 27 EU countries / Europe 44.

Land mass or self-perceived importance from within notwithstanding.

The result of Germany’s remarkable interventions is remarkable in its mediocrity.

To be fair, Germans are famously paranoid about health. Are you keeping your kidneys covered so you don’t catch a cold?

I know plenty of people who bundle up warm against the cold but refuse to wear a mask to prevent the cold. Convenience over effectiveness.

Germans are famously paranoid about health?

When I was in Germany at the end of this September, there were certainly plenty of signs saying masks were mandatory on public transport. Compliance with said signs, however, was well south of 50%.

I ride the subway almost every day and that's not been my experience. I guess it varies by region.

Indoor masking is quite common in the SF Bay Area.

I live in the SF Bay Area. Yes you will always see masks but I’m surprised how many people you see who don’t wear them.

Yeah, that's definitely true. At the grocery store near me (bougie area, a lot of older people) I see maybe 50-60% of people masked.

On the other hand, now that I'm quadruple vaccinated and use an N95 I'm not overly bothered by people not wearing masks around me.

And that's shockingly high for Massachusetts where it's probably less than 1% in general--outside of healthcare settings and probably a few percent higher on public transit.

yes and, you see "social signal" surgical masks and also clinical N-95 variations.. personally I do wear the N-95 at the grocery store at this time. I throw them out after a few weeks of use and use a new one. A box of ten is about $15 at a local hardware store near me.

It's a cult over there. They get guilted into feeling like bioterrorists if they don't.

Many people are prosocial and don't need to be guilted into things, unlike what conservatives think.

I would rather call it religion, they really believe in masks.

This is not true. Most people I know and I don’t wear masks regularly anymore, except for special cases. And no one has ever guilted me for it.

There are certain places where many people are masked, so I might wear one to be polite.

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