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Comment by podric | Hacker News Reader

The idea that H-1B workers suppress US wages is a harmful myth that gets thrown around HN a lot.

The study that supports the claim that the H-1B program suppresses US tech wages is about 20 years old, and no longer reflects the current reality.

In fact, a 2017 Glassdoor study found that the wages of H-1B workers were 2.8% higher than their American counterparts: https://www.glassdoor.com/research/h1b-workers/

The US creates several million new jobs each year on average, and the H-1B cap is 85K, which is an order of magnitude less than the number of jobs created per year. In order for the H-1B program to meaningfully impact the US labor market, the H-1B cap needs to be increased significantly.

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Getting paid more than domestic workers doesn't mean you don't lower the wages of the sector overall, it could just mean you're competing with the top end of the market.

I was over there working on an E-3 a few years back, and I'm pretty sure I got hired because it was easier (e.g. cheaper) to set up a hiring funnel in another country than within the US. That doesn't automatically mean lower wage growth, but it could.

I tentatively think that skilled migrant workers lower wages within a single sector but have a neutral or positive effect on wages overall, and the US tech labour market is so hot that I don't feel bad for making its wages drop, stagnate, or increase slightly slower than they might otherwise, assuming the overall impact on every other sector is positive.

Any additional workers in an area will lower wages in that area. Simple supply & demand and off course you are right that they also grow the overall pie. I do wonder though how much the added friction when changing jobs as an H1B holder creates a downward pressure. I'd bet comp in all areas with lots of H1B workers would go up if we made it much easier to change jobs while on an H1B and give a lot more time to find a new job when suddenly unemployed (1-2 years instead of weeks)

> The US creates several million new jobs each year on average, and the H-1B cap is 85K, which is an order of magnitude less than the number of jobs created per year.

H-1B hires are not evenly distributed across all job types. A large fraction of them going to particular industries, like is seen in big tech, could move the needle in those industries.

> In fact, a 2017 Glassdoor study found that the wages of H-1B workers were 2.8% higher than their American counterparts

The problem with this is that H1B workers work a lot more than 2.8% harder, on average, and companies know this.

Many H1B workers are practically abused. They may be doing the work of two engineers. Unlike a typical work relationship between an upper-middle class professional and a tech company, separating from the company may not be realistic recourse because the work-visa immigration status is a Damoclean sword.

I've seen this bite even harder for L1B immigrants who work for multinational tech companies and get lured to the US from abroad, because even if you find another company willing to sponsor your H1B you are still subject to the caps. It's pretty messed up.

It’s not a myth. I worked for a prominent US company that routinely hired non-Americans based on price. There are innumerable ways around the H-1B limits. I quit the company.

Name a name then

Looking for work?

Perhaps it is a myth with no basis. That said, increased supply decreasing demand is usually the null case, yes? So I'd want to see evidence that additional workers do not supress wages.

Basically what you're asking for is protectionism. How is it different than putting tariffs on Japanese cars to make american cars less uncompetitive?

I made no argument on any decision, only on a means to answer a specific question of measurement.

I am not purporting that the H-1B program has no effect on tech wages, just that it has a negligible effect due to its small cap relative to the number of tech jobs available.

Any increase in labor supply would have some effect on the wage level in an industry.

There might technically be enough Americans who would like to make FAANG-level wages and know how to use a computer and are willing to be an engineer.

But there's definitely not enough Americans skilled enough for those jobs.

Should FAANG be forced to train Americans rather than hire H1B workers? I don't know.

It's a mystery to me they bring people to the US instead of just employ them in other countries in the first place.

But if the US didn't allow H1B workers, they definitely would.

Should American companies not be able to have foreign offices staffed with foreign workers? I don't know.

But this sounds like a recipe for handicapping American companies vs global competitor...

FAANG are the worst example because they turnaway more applications who can perform those roles then apply. FAANGs shouldn't be allowed H1B workers.

I think it's hard to export the SV software engineering culture to foreign offices. You have at most a few people to seed it, but then it's overrun by people with totally different backgrounds that have no idea what it's about.

also consider that we issued more than 350k student visas this year. if the h1-b cap is 85k then we are giving immigrants some of best college-level education in the world and then refusing to hire >75% of them. this has never made sense to me.

Or we force them to marry locally.

Or 20 years of wage suppression worked and now they're at parity.

What happens to demand when supply is increased?

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