Twitter Suspends @Joinmastodon | Hacker News Reader

Twitter Suspends @Joinmastodon

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224 pointsKye104 comments

If you're thinking of trying Mastodon, I would recommend joining an interest-specific or locality-specific server rather than one of the general purpose servers, because the local community is likely to be stronger and more engaged. You can always jump ship later if you find it's not your thing

Some examples:

- https://fosstodon.org for FOSS - https://infosec.exchange for infosec - https://sfba.social for the bay area

There's a map of locality-specific instances here: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/mastodon-near-me_828094

Of possible interest to some:

> Please consider joining @mastodon.acm.org, a community for #computing researchers & practitioners to connect & exchange ideas with each other, whether you are an ACM member or not.

https://mastodon.acm.org/invite/FbXaxAHg

Last time I looked into Mastodon (a couple years ago), I found a small, specific community that piqued my interest. Months later, the owner of the instance lost interest and closed it. In the end I never registered, but, what would have happened if I did and started to use it in my day to day? Would I wake up one day to find out that I no longer have a Mastodon account?

I feel the response might be something akin to "what would happen if you have a fastmail account and then fastmail closes?". If that's the case, I see absolutely no reason to choose a small instance, just for the sake of reliability and trust in its continued operation.

Any techie on HN could run a one-person instance. Mastodon itself is fat, but Pleroma/Akkoma and Misskey are smaller, for instance. I know someone who's writing software for a one-person server in Rust that is intended to deploy as a single binary file.

The problem you describe is real, though, and it's the least friendly thing about Mastodon for new users.

I'd pick a large instance to start with, and move at your leisure.

I'm camped out on a friend's server right now, he said it was strictly for amusement but he's having a whale of a time being a Mastodon admin. When he says he'll definitely give us 2mo notice if he gets sick of it, I know I can trust him on that. That sort of thing.

is the Rust dude on github? I'd like to help

I agree with you. Mastodon does make it easier to migrate between users. ActivityPub (or is it Mastodon-specific?) has something built in to broadcast account migration announcements, supports account aliases, carry followers over, etc.

It's better than email in that regard.

This is an issue addressed by the Mastodon Server Covenant: https://joinmastodon.org/covenant

The Covenant includes a commitment from server admins to give users at least 3 months of advance warning in case of shutting down

That's an agreement with no teeth, they can just shut it down without warning, and then what do you do.

If this is very important to you, then you should find a server admin that you trust, such as a friend or a fellow industry professional.

You can also use a paid instance like https://cloudisland.nz/ or set up your own using a hosted service like masto.host

Im very surprised that, among techies, there aren't more people running their own instance as a solo user, so that they can own the entire username including the domain name.

It's what I did for myself (Follow me! @jerome@leclan.ch), following Simon Willison's post: https://til.simonwillison.net/mastodon/custom-domain-mastodo...

Speaking from three years’ experience on a single-user instance, Mastodon just isn’t designed with this use in mind. Having the custom domain is neat but for now comes at the cost of an awkward and isolated experience.

Some of that could be improved with UI changes but to address it satisfactorily probably requires the server to do some proactive crawling beyond what’s dropped in your inbox.

For just ownership of identity keep an eye on this issue:

https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/2668

One's own or a small instance with a few friends is suitable for people who are high profile who post challenging content. People will follow them from anywhere and visibility will be gained that way. Some high profile people do not want to be subject to the whims of moderators. Examples include every politician and many journalists. If you are not a high profile publisher, you will likely experience a bit of isolation with your own instance.

I too self host my instance. I opted to use Pleroma (https://pleroma.social/) for a backend to interact with the fediverse because of the easier setup and lower hosting requirements.

It’s been working for a few years now and (luckily) I never had major incidents.

It’s very refreshing to be in full control of one’s data (compared to the centralised experience with other socials like Twitter and Facebook).

I considered Pleroma, but opted to use Mastodon because DO had a ready-made droplet.

I will likely switch to Takahe (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33731739) as soon as it's a little more ready, for the reasons you describe.

"Notice: due to the recent influx of traffic, new subscriptions are closed." https://masto.host/

"hi! there's been a huge wave of new members and new instances recently, and that's a Lot of work. i am tired and especially won't be very available in the next months for health reasons, so i won't be accepting new instances for a while." https://fedi.monster/

"Due to overwhelming demand, registrations are currently closed." https://cloudplane.org/

A lot of users on these are opening up public instances, rather than their own. I don't see a huge amount of "host mastodon for yourself on your own domain" people.

I went this route (via https://marketplace.digitalocean.com/apps/mastodon - I would have used masto.host otherwise). Im keeping an eye on Takahe (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33731739) as hosting mastodon is kind of expensive, for the type of use I make of it.

https://sigmoid.social/ for AI/machine learning.

It was cool seeing https://mathstodon.xyz/ on the HN front page recently.

I really like the idea of different organizations running their own instances. You don't need an overbearing, exhaustive and centralized system of verification for journalists when something like WAPO or NY Times can run an instance for their employees, much like how email works.

Edit: A lot of journalists just learned about the value of owning their distribution platform now too lol

Fosstodon was just banned from Twitter too, but that should not stop you from joining it. It looks like Twitter will be playing a game of whack a mole as we launch more instances.

This assumes one cares about the local community aspect of Mastodon. Granted many people do in which case your advice is spot on. But if you're just looking for a pure Twitter replacement, it doesn't matter. In fact you might be better off on one of the big players as they're probably less likely to be fly-by-night.

> In fact you might be better off on one of the big players as they're probably less likely to be fly-by-night.

The biggest advantage of a big instance like mastodon.social is that account discovery and following are much easier when the accounts are on the same instance of you. Otherwise, you have to do a lot of copy and paste into search fields.

It would be nice if new users were simply assigned a big, generic server (like in many MMOs) and then later had the option to seek out and find a niche server. The vast, vast majority of new users wouldn't know or care either way.

That's more or less what _happens_; people join mastodon.social and then move.

I can confirm this is what I did. I started on mastodon.social, then eventually moved to a smaller instance when I got jealous of their local timeline. Then I'm now hosting my own server in the closet.

Multiple journalists have now been suspended from Twitter: Drew Harwell, Aaron Rupar, Ryan Mac, and Donie O'Sullivan. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34007811

This is getting crazy!

Also Matt Binder (@MattBinder; see https://twitter.com/adamjraabe/status/1603554054134812676).

The Intercept's @micahflee https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/16035580211201187...

Keith Olbermann, and others https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34008305

Hard to see how the remaining advertisers don't flee Twitter after tonight's slaughter.

I was just going to note Micah F. Lee.

He's confirmed from Mastodon: <https://infosec.exchange/@micahflee/109520663450858280>

Advertisers don't care if some users are banned or if the platform is 'unfair'.

Advertisers care if their advert shows up to something illegal or bad for the brand.

Twitter faces no real threat from Mastodon until they streamline their sign up process and mask the "decentralized server" nonsense. I understand that the people here don't see it as nonsense, but the millions of less tech savvy users needed to make it a true Twitter alternative do see it that way and it will prevent Mastodon from ever being more than a niche service. It's a baffling process to the everyday user who has signed up for dozens of different services over the years with a simple email and password (if not single sign on).

That's fine. Mastodon's goal isn't to replace Twitter, but the way Twitter is heading I wouldn't blame people who use it as a replacement.

Mastodon's real problem is that it doesn't have sex appeal. It's not a Game of Thrones celebrity throwdown like Twitter, and it lacks the marketing of successful viral platforms like TikTok or Instagram. It was a conscious decision too - calling posts toots and designing the entire network to be distributed - making it less social was part of making it more healthy. Even now, Mastodon maintainers waffle at the idea of making the platform more Twitter-like because it dilutes the balance the platform has cultivated over the past few years.

It's like saying that Discord doesn't face any threat from IRC. You might be right from a financial perspective, but the communities around them are completely different things. It's an apples-to-oranges comparison.

Curious as to how many people manage to sign up for email addresses across a variety of providers despite all that decentralised server nonsense.

Users think of Mastodon as analogous to Twitter. You can tell them they are wrong. But telling new and eager users they are wrong, and then offering an elaborate explanation as to why they are wrong and then requiring them to make a confusing choice with unclear consequences before they can even use the service is not a great strategy for growth.

Are you kidding? The vast majority just use Gmail now, or perhaps an institutional account they were enrolled in “automatically” and have a strong motive to check regularly for school/work purposes.

Right. Most people get their email from work, school, their ISP, or from their OS provider: Google, Microsoft, Apple.

If you present people with a list of 30 email providers they've never heard of before, it's going to throw them for a loop.

I don't think any people get their email from their ISP these days.

I know for a fact that they do.

Fascinating. Would you name the ISP(s), if I may ask?

Well, for the most part they don't, they use either their ISP e-mail, their work e-mail, or Gmail. iCloud might be a distant runner up. I rarely see anybody using even Yahoo or hotmail anymore.

In practice we don't see situations arising where Yahoo users can't send email to Gmail users because the boss of Gmail doesn't like that that the boss of Yahoo allows Fastmail users to send email to Yahoo users

This isn't true. In fact we do see email providers getting blocked, mainly because of spam or other unwanted emails being sent from a provider.

https://www.google.com/search?q=why+is+gmail+blocking+my+ema...

yes we do. remember when Yahoo email to mailing lists went straight to GMail spam for a while because GMail didn't like how Yahoo managed its headers?

This right here is my primary problem with Mastodon. Its ripe for drama like this. The amount of glee I saw in the older users their about defedrating felt really unsettling. "If X company comes we will defedarate them" "If X celebrity comes we will defedarate them".

Exactly this, it's like the most emotionally immature people on Twitter have been given an even more powerful blocklist to play with. Like thousands of mini-Musks with their own volatility problems.

Banning ElonJet was already a cheat, so I'm extremely curious how this is one is justified.

It linked directly to ElonJet's account there and invited people to join and follow this account. That's probably what did it.

https://web.archive.org/web/20221215174053/https://twitter.c...

Wow - that reply is prophetic.

> Uh oh — ban in 3... 2... :grimace:

Can I post a tweet linking to a news article that links to their mastodon account?

Seems like the answer is no, that's a suspension.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TexasObserver/status/160354905128...

So how many layers deep does the ban-hammer strike? The Seven-Degrees-of-Kevin-Bacon-esque game being played here seems like it'll only end with Twitter having zero users.

Funny, isn't it? Please excuse my non-essential comment, but this shit-show is so funny. Watching it from the sidelines makes me think of some systemic cures for all of that, which I find none. Elon lost it completely. Psychological factors regarding single human start to play crucial role when we talk about overpower. TBD. You know, like simple, human energy of fear (scared of loosing power) makes a dictator to slash 8M people (examples abound) or childlike nature of Elon makes him go funny with Twitter.

I was suspended for posting this https://infosec.exchange/@micahflee/109520648205436407

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603181423787380737

"Any account doxxing real-time location info of anyone will be suspended, as it is a physical safety violation. This includes posting links to sites with real-time location info."

While you did not embed the link itself, that nuance is a distinction without a difference as the intent was still to share the location to a site with real-time location information, which as stated, will result in suspension/ban.

Hey Micah!

Could you post a screenshot of the suspension notice you got from Twitter? Does it say which "rule" was allegedly broken?

The message from the image:

Twitter just banned Mastodon's official Twitter account @joinmastodon with 174,000 followers, probably because it tweeted a link to @ElonJet's Mastodon account. Twitter is now censoring posting the link, but the user is @elonjet@maston.social

The Twitter accounts of journalists are also being suspended, presumably because they dared to talk about ElonJet:

https://twitter.com/drewharwell

https://twitter.com/RMac18

https://twitter.com/donie

This journalist has not been suspended yet: https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy

This is not a good look for Twitter or for Musk.

The cartoon image would be of Elon scrolling through Twitter and spite-banning and spite-unbanning accounts in real time and according to his whim. This cartoon image is also the one that feels increasingly more likely to be true.

He's nothing but a petty tyrant. History teaches us what happens to tyrants.

> History teaches us what happens to tyrants.

Seems like a pretty mixed message tbh.

they die. just like everyone else

Even cable TV providers allow ads for DirecTV, etc.

Twitter is still running ads for TikTok, funny enough

Boy do they need the ad revenue.

Cable tv providers pay for content from networks/channels who themselves put ads. Cable TV providers could only block ads by not buying channels with ads.

Isn't that because they're legally required to?

Cable isn’t considered a common carrier service, what law requires them to carry commercials for competitors?

Cable TV doesn't sell ad time, the networks they carry do. And you won't see ads for NBC sitcoms while watching CBS.

Possibly in response to their tweet about the @elonjet account on Mastodon. Banning someone for talking about or linking to something that would break rules if it were on Twitter seems contrary to the variant of free speech Elon Musk claimed to support pre-Twitter purchase.

I think elonjet also has a sub on reddit. Will reddit links be banned from twitter soon? Any website that mentions elonjet? lol

The tweet linked to the account on mastodon, it didn't simply link to a mastodon instance which happened to host elonjet's account. Presumably direct links to the subreddit would be banned, whereas reddit as a whole would be fine.

This rationale is so silly that I agree it's the likely answer.

You also cannot post any links to ANY Mastodon instance, any that are already up have a huge danger warning.

Are we certain this wasn't caught up in the recent purge of bot accounts? I expect Musk will probably reinstate this account soon.

just petty.

Anyone who supports Elon’s takeover at this point is basically a shill who has sold out to the man

Strange comment. I myself dont care for twitter, the Elon/twitter hate recently has been entertaining.

the sky is blue...

We figured out that we’re not allowed to encourage stalking, but if we call it “press coverage” of stalking then we can pretend it’s not stalking. The analogy doesn’t hold anywhere, child porn, drug sales, anything. This is a honeypot for the very lowest-performing flies. The traditional press may be gleefully rubbing its tiny legs together but the logic doesn’t survive first-order scrutiny.

What does this have to do with Mastodon?

If you post stalking on mastodon on twitter, apparently you get banned. Not all that complicated. I am sure you can share child porn on mastodon too, doesn’t have much to do with Twitter either as far as anyone can tell.

My main problem with Mastodon is it's such a tiresome monoculture of opinion. So many people with the pretty much the same politics, biases, grievances as everyone else. Any server that dissents too much from this gets a fediverse block.

The whole thing is just so tedious. I don't know about the rest of you, but I enjoy reading opinions from people I have nothing in common with in terms of world view, and whom I vehemently disagree with.

On Twitter, you get that easily. On Mastodon, meh. Same old shit repeated everywhere. Boring and sanctimonious.

I'm not saying it's easy but you could probably run your own instance and subscribe to multiple different servers that have the diversity you're looking for.

That's interesting, is it possible to subscribe to servers secretly so other servers don't know you've done so? Otherwise, I imagine my own hypothetical instance would get swiftly blocked.

He says on HN.

I'm sure there's somewhere in the Pleroma parts you'll fit in better.

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