Hacker News Reader

Comment by ravenstine | Hacker News Reader

> Tesla for home appliances: re-inventing home appliances (water heaters, induction stoves, clothes dryers, etc) to create better consumer experiences using specific advantages of electric technology.

> Tesla-like experience for home energy management: smart hub, including smart charging, load shifting, software-based load shedding for improved resiliency, and better circuit-level energy use measurement.

With how Tesla vehicles are rated, and the unanimous lack of confidence in "autopilot" I've witnessed in owners, no way in hell am I do I want to "Teslify" everything in my home. In order to prove that there's something wrong with the current consumer experience, you have to bring an example to show it. So far, I've only seen ways to further add more surveillance and advertising into everyday people's lives, not to mention the increased disposability of appliances. No thanks.

View on HN

I came here to post this as well. For one, it doesn't even make sense. Tesla is a car manufacturer and makes objectively worse cars than the competition. They just happen to be EVs. Making any thing "Tesla" inside my house means it will be flashy but work less well than existing solutions, in addition to removing all knobs. All of which is the opposite of what I want. I've already de-smartified my Nests because, surprise, they aren't actually smart and end up being worse than me controlling them.

What is objectively worse about them? They seem very popular with consumers.

Popularity does not necessarily correlate with quality. Tesla is typically rated at the bottom for quality and reliability.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-s...

Note that that ranking only compares against other EVs, of which there aren't that many yet, and that Kia's new model, which has only been out for a year, is already above Tesla. I have said this for years, and it's been clear to me that Tesla cannot compete against traditional car makers moving into the EV space.

Consumer Reports ranks Tesla at either the bottom or second to last when compared against all other car manufacturers.

Tesla is pretty high on reliability, just not quality (ie. panel gaps and build quality issues are still a thing, but based on CR they're on-par with all the other non-luxury car brands).

They are rated low on both reliability and quality. Consumer Reports rates them second to last in reliability. And Tesla has for years done warranty work as "goodwill repairs" to hide how bad their reliability is.

For one, their interior is rather unluxurious considering the price tag relative to other EVs. The only thing it's got going for it is the tablet screen, which was cool back in the day but today anyone can install an aftermarket one in their old beater.

If someone wants to buy a Tesla because they truly like it or the brand, they're the only ones who can decide the right answer for them. I personally don't get it. There are way better options now in my eyes; it's just they're uncool brand names like Subaru and Hyundai.

The engineering tolerances are not good -- ie. you can stick a pen between the body panels. Can't do that with a Toyota or Honda, for example.

The interior is spartan. My $40,000 minivan has more interior features for passengers than a $140,000 Model X.

The tablet controls. They are unsafe as they make you take your eyes off the road. Cars still need physical buttons for critical control systems and systems that consumers need to control often (radio, climate control, windshield wipers, cruise control, etc.).

Build quality -- Tesla's are known for having cheap parts and parts that fall off or break easily or just wear out quickly.

I agree with pretty much all of this but if any governing body(whether it be the manufacturer or government) cared about screens and how detrimental they are to safety and driving, you wouldn't see every other person gawking at their phone while driving 70mph.

There's a reason using your phone while driving is illegal in most of the liberal states.

Jaywalking is also illegal in a lot of places, doesn't mean its enforced.

> Cars still need physical buttons for critical control systems and systems that consumers need to control often (radio, climate control, windshield wipers, cruise control, etc.).

Radio - volume and track control are physical, more technical stuff can be done by voice or simple touch screen touches. For folks who say “I don’t do voice, but I demand physical controls”, I humbly suggest that using voice is safer than anything physical in terms of maintaining focus on the road.

Climate control - voice or simple, easy-to-access touch controls.

Windshield wipers - physical or voice, voice or touch to adjust if necessary. “Auto” makes can make this a set it and forget it feature.

Cruise control - physical

Isn't the big problem with smart appliances exactly this?

I was in the market for a new pellet grill recently and I ran into huge problems, almost everything on the market is bluetooth this or wifi that. The last thing I need is an unreliable radio to be at the center of the controls for my outdoor appliance, or for any appliance whatsoever, to have a dependency on my internet connection and the availability of some manufacturers servers.

Because who know what might happen. The manufacturer might decide it doesn't like your hardware anymore and push out a firmware update that bricks all your devices in 60 days, but don't worry, they'll give you a coupon for buying the latest and greatest from them (looking at you sonos).

Want to know how to not get me to buy your product? Make it dependent on some unreliable technology that gives no benefit to the device, but makes the device dependent on the goodwill of the parent corporation.

What's amazing is the failed potential of these devices that do include things like Bluetooth and WiFi. In so many cases, they sporadically fail to pair with their respective apps, or are slow to pair, if they can reliably pair at all. Even when the connection works, you'd better hope the app actually alerts you when your food is ready or whatever. Whooops, our API returned a 500! Our bad, bruh!

I'm particularly baffled because, in my experience designing and manufacturing my own PCB with a BLE IC on it, integrating something like BLE and having it work reliably doesn't seem that difficult. BLE is an annoyingly complicated standard, but it's by no means impossible to work with. The app I wrote could pair with the device instantly and reliably stay connected while receiving data in real time. I don't get why other BLE devices I've owned have issues while my pissant attempt had none of them. If it's BLE, you can count on seeing some loading spinners frequently unless it's being paired with another devices designed specifically for it (like a game console).

The only wireless digital technologies I've found are beneficial are WiFi internet and Bluetooth audio (which is still awful in most cases but AirPods work OK). Everything else ends up being a gimmick, more of a hassle, and even a trojan horse for more privacy violations.

The way I see it when talking about Tesla it’s talking about the pre/post Tesla (aka the transition from ICE to EV in all auto makers) and not the build quality of Tesla per se !

^ This. There is just a backlash on HN with Elon hurting so many people's feels about Twitter & having an alternate political view, that everyone is seeing him in a negative light.

Tesla helped push ICE to EV even though technologically some of the efforts may have been done at other companies and products before - yet Tesla pushed the experience mainstream.

Exactly, they are asking for technology that can shift their industry. They aren't asking for Tesla's baggage any more than a request for "Uber for X" implies they want a company that will ignore regulatory requirements.

I’m pretty sure that “Uber for X” implies some degree of ignoring regulations long enough to have power to change them.

Why not pre/post electric Lada of the 1980s and associated R&D?

https://www.reckontalk.com/electro-russian-tesla-first-elect...

The biggest manufacturer of electric cars worldwide is BYD

The biggest driver of sales (trough public policy) has been China and Europe, including things like announcing bans of ICE in city centers/cities:

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Electric_car_use_by_country

Tesla started as a luxury brand (Roadster and then luxury sedans) and the only innovation they have managed is name recognition; even the adoption they have driven in the US has been mostly trough public policy like tax incentives.

Because very few people will know what you are talking about if you go up to a random person and ask them about Lada or BYD.

Musk is an egomaniacal idiot that most of us dislike. There are countless valid reasons to dislike Tesla as a company and the cars they make. However, that shouldn't cause people to overthink things when their name is simply being used as shorthand as it clearly is in this instance.

> Because very few people will know what you are talking about if you go up to a random person and ask them about Lada or BYD.

This is why parent said only innovation Tesla has managed is name recognition.

> unanimous lack of confidence in "autopilot" I've witnessed in owners

I'm an owner and I have a lot of confidence in autopilot. Generally, if it's possible to use autopilot on the road I'm on, I do. So that's one owner you're witnessing who's not part of that "unanimous".

I would be a great disaster if Tesla or HP produced water boilers. If would be success if Brother or raspberry pi made them.

The idea of "HP Instant Ink"-like subscriptions for home appliances is vomit inducing.

"Your boiler has reached the limit of water it can warm up this month. We're sending you a new one"

But think of the shareholder value they could accrue.

Honestly, I'm not very mad at instant ink because the printer market was so broken. A subscription for another appliance would be pretty maddening, though.

I have instant ink and I love it. First time ever I’ve been able to own a printer without swearing at it once

> unanimous lack of confidence in "autopilot" I've witnessed in owners

You must talk to a very narrow band of Tesla owners.

Auto pilot is basically enhanced cruise control, and Tesla do this quite well.

If you’re referring to fulls self driving (FSD), then I agree. FSD is best seen as slightly advanced autopilot (it can change lanes, etc.) and self-parking in very tight spots like small garages. The FSD name is largely a misnomer, and it has given the features that have been implemented well (listed above) a very bad name.

Related to the request and your comment, I personally wish that home appliances would have Tesla-esque features, just without the Elon over-promising bluster.

Venture capitalists using Tesla in some kind of virtue signal is the most 2022 thing

Considering what a terrible year this has been for Tesla stock and their absentee CEO it would be more fitting in 2021.

The brand has enough baggage by now that the second-highest comment chain is about its unsuitability as an ideal, rather than discussing the content itself.

That was the point. It’s vey 2022 to gaslight us about how we’re experiencing these VC darlings.

Tesla is indeed a strange choice for a simile, considering that Tesla cars use prodigious amounts of energy compared to other electric cars, or other cars in general. I doubt they're even more environmentally friendly overall than a compact combustion engine car. Tesla made electric cool by building an over the top luxury car, what we really need is the opposite.

There are some cars coming out next year that are more energy efficient than a Tesla, like the Hyundai Ioniq 6, but I don't know of any currently widely available vehicles that are.

By energy efficient do you mean kilowatt hours / kilometer (or equivalent units)? The standard range Model 3 – the most efficient one – is apparently 15/16 kWh per 100km, which is pretty much exactly the same as a VW ID3 (15.5 - 15.7 in Pro spec) and only a little less than a Hyundai Ioniq 5 (16.8).

Sitting on my hyundai kona ev. In 2833 kms, consumption was 13.5 kwh/100km

A tesla weighs 2-3 times more than a compact car, so that means it must be extremely efficient pound for pound. Nevertheless, I doubt many people, until recently, bought Tesla's because of (ostensible) environmental concerns.

How does your efficiency argument follow from merely weight?

If you can move a heavy object using less energy than others move a much lighter object, then it would seem that you are quite efficient. Unless we're talking about constant speed in a vacuum.

Yes, but where does the less energy argument or data come from?

From the comment I responded to

Every single Tesla owner I know bought it for environmental reasons.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com