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Comment by ilamont | Hacker News Reader

We live in an older suburb that has never had HOAs in a state (Massachusetts) that rarely has them (condo boards are a different story). One thing I see, however, are new people from other parts of the country who used to live in HOAs trying to impose voluntary codes of conduct on everyone in the neighborhood as if it were an HOA. The most recent one: don’t put your trash barrel out for pickup until after 4 pm the previous day.

Related: Are HOAs and condo associations basically the same idea?

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It is amazing that people have nothing better to do than be concerned about their neighbors trash can being outside at 3:00pm

The point is usually they don't want bins outside all week long. So then you have to codify that with a "When is ok?"

Generally you might go for some time the day before and some time the evening after collection. It's not that 4pm is a magic number that someone obsesses about, it's just a reasonable number given the goal of wanting the area to look pretty and you gotta pick one.

I have neighbors that occasionally leave their bins out all week. Thankfully I have way more important things to spend my mental energy on.

You do not have to codify this at all. Your need for control over my garbage bins is why I refuse to live somewhere with a HoA.

I don't see any problem with bin outside all the time. Then again the house I used to live in had fence that was about high as it. So it was hidden from the road.

In a condo you have communal property you all have to maintain (the elevator, the roof etc, if they break you're all screwed).

HOAs usually don't have that (maybe some roads that should be adopted by the local government...). Instead their rules are specifically about lifestyle and appearances.

In subdivisions, they’re also responsible for maintenance of common areas like parks and other green spaces within bounds.

Sorry I wasn't very clear. In a condo, you have shared assets like a roof and stairs and a front door and elevators. If they fail is a huge problem for everyone. In an HoA, you don't really share any VITAL components. You might all contribute to the upkeep of a park or a pool. But if the park or the pool are neglected, you can still live in you're home. You're actual home is self contained and yours alone.

>maybe some roads that should be adopted by the local government...

Government won't "adopt" roads behind a gate...

> Are HOAs and condo associations basically the same idea?

They are the exact same thing, but the fact that one is for single-family homes and the other for condos makes them behave in different ways. Generally speaking, the higher the density of people, the more they are accepting of regulations on their behavior.

This is city ordinance where I am in Massachusetts, but it’s 24h before pickup…

Imagine people not wanting trashy neighborhoods. How bizarre.

It almost always starts benign: keep the bins out of sight except for trash days. But sooner or later some power-hungry busybody takes over and the next thing you know, citations are flying left and right.

It's absolutely a slippery slope. Once you've established the mechanism to harass people over trash cans, next it's the color of their house, the shape of their windows, where they park their cars on their own property, if they have a scrap wood pile, and on-and-on. And then before you know it, you have the Nextdoor-powered housing gestapo.

It's absolutely a slippery slope.

Except that it isn't - and you yourself have slipped into a classic fallacy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Slippery slope is only a fallacy when there's little to no evidence that you'll fall down the slope. When there is evidence or logic showing that it truly is slippery, it's not a fallacy anymore. Even from the article you linked:

> The strength of such an argument depends on whether the small step really is likely to lead to the effect

Some would say it is very likely for power-tripping HOA members to continue sliding down the slope.

Some would say is neither evidence nor logic.

My mistake for joining a conversation in which the local neighborhood improvement association was literally compared with the Gestapo.

I much prefer to be left alone in a “trashy neighborhood” (which is quite a claim based on some plastic cans being outside a few hours early) than be micromanaged by my neighbors.

I know what you mean, but I've been in some actually trashy neighborhoods that could have used a higher floor on the public-facing conduct of its residents. Of course, as other commenters are pointing out, it is a slippery slope that often leads to micromanagement.

> but I've been in some actually trashy neighborhoods that could have used a higher floor on the public-facing conduct of its residents.

Cool. Buy a house somewhere else then.

And I suppose those that can't afford to move will just have to deal with it?

Yes. Exactly. If you want to live in a manicured cul-de-sac that's your business. If you live somewhere that isn't already a manicured cul-de-sac then you shouldn't be trying to make it into one.

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