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Comment by mjn | Hacker News Reader

This appears to be the new policy: https://twitter.com/TwitterSafety/status/1603165959669354496

“live location information, including information shared on Twitter directly or links to 3rd-party URL(s) of travel routes, actual physical location, or other identifying information that would reveal a person’s location, regardless if this information is publicly available”

This makes “I am at <concert> watching <performer>” a violation.

"Content that shares location information related to a public engagement or event, such as a concert or political event, is also permitted." Literally the next sentence in the thread linked.

A plane taking off is a public event, and that statement isn’t in the actual policy linked.

https://twitter.com/TwitterSafety/status/1603165967453868032...

Again, that’s not in the “full policy” in the final link. An exception documented only in a Twitter thread might as well not exist.

https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/personal-info...

Having two policies documented in two places helps when you need to decide which interpretation applies to a tweet you don't like.

Landing at an airport is a public event

It happens in public, but it isn’t a ‘public event’ by any reasonable interpretation unless Elon encourages people to come see him disembark the plane.

Actually, he’s celebrity, having deliberately sought the spotlight for years. That also means he has a lower reasonable expectation of privacy than a normal person, much like other celebrities and public people.

Yeah but that doesn’t make Twitter’s new policy any less than what it says.

From a Pro Publica article [1] some years back:

"Use of the national airspace is generally considered public information because pilots – whether airline captains or recreational fliers – rely on a system of air traffic controllers, radars, runways and taxiways, lighting systems and towers that are all paid for or subsidized by taxpayers.

As a result, flight data collected by the FAA in its air traffic control system – except for military and sensitive government flights – is public information. Web sites such as FlightAware post the data online, allowing anyone to observe the system and follow most planes virtually in real time."

Which is not to say that Elon setting foot onto the tarmac should be open to the general public - but the very fact that airports are restricted spaces makes this kind of information more comfortable.

[1] https://www.propublica.org/article/off-the-radar-private-pla...

That doesn’t make it a public event, the sentence even gives examples of what they consider public events - concerts and political events.

I’m not arguing about anything here except for Twitter’s new policy. I don’t think it’s a good policy and it makes the lie of Musk’s “commitment” to free speech but it says what it says.

Right -- that word "event" is a huge deal here. I'd guess it makes Twitter's newest policy under Elon its, by definition, most restrictive speech policy to date.

More importantly, flying it in public airspace is.

Reading the thread shows that this is explicitly allowed:

> "You can still share your own live location on Twitter."

My wording also shares the location of the performer. As the policy states, that information being otherwise public doesn’t matter.

I wonder how does Elon expect any journalist to follow these rules? Big chunk of information from press is reporting on public figures location and sometimes this include reporting in real time.

"Content that shares location information related to a public engagement or event, such as a concert or political event, is also permitted."

Thank god artists can still post their set times, was worried about freedom of speech for a second there.

The new Twitter is just Elon being offended and abusing his power, then retweeting and liking single tweets that validate his current mood

According to these rules journalists are no longer allowed to publicly share information about Elon going to visit his Saudi creditors since it's wont be public event. Nice!

That's the one case where I can see this as a good thing (for the journalists). Just keep them away from the embassy...

They can, just not in real time.

"Tweets that share someone else’s historical (not same-day) location information are also not prohibited by this policy."

Yes. According to Twitter policy there must be "24 hours" delay since it's only way to follow "not same-day" rule. This will obviously makes Twitter useless for any news reporting.

Could you give an example from today's news which would be in violation of that rule?

Any social network post from celebrity X who mention they just seen celebrity Y on a private party of celebrity Z? According to Elon this information about him cannot be shared on Twitter.

PS: I'm not exactly into US celebrities, but I'm very much into stalking Putin and his cronies using OSINT reporting on Twitter. Now anyone who publicly share their movements can be banned.

Sounds great. Maybe this will end the leeches that are paparazzis.

Police shootings.

This Tweet from a few days ago about a former NFL coach visiting Stanford would seem to violate it;

https://twitter.com/ByPatForde/status/1600993384851652608

Maybe not a technical violation since it said "earlier today" -- but a random student tweeting the same right after seeing him on campus would get the account suspended?

A fan saying "OMG, just saw Kanye at the Whole Foods in El Segundo" would be worthy of suspension?

News stories about various public officials secret trips for negotiations would be worthy of suspension?

Doesn't seem very "free speechey" to me.

Or just posting that you ran into your good friend Bob this morning and roughly where would presumptively be in violation, Twitter would have no way of knowing whether Bob consented for that information to be published.

Before coalition talks in Germany there are frequently news about politicians visiting this party headquarter or that party headquarter, practically always in real time. All of those are usually not public events. There are no press conferences, nobody in the press is told about those visits (except if it leaks).

> Tweets that share someone else’s historical (not same-day) location information are also not prohibited by this policy.

Seems like the rules would allow journalists to share a story reporting if Elon Musk visited any Saudi creditors, but if they include the location of the meeting in their reporting then they wouldn’t be allowed to post it on Twitter until after the meeting.

Is using a public airport an engagement?

"an arrangement to do something or go somewhere at a fixed time."

That is not sufficient. Is getting arrested a "public engagement"? Is appearing as a defendant in court?

Well, in the next hour, a journalist is going to get banned, a campaign will come up to get them unbanned, and Twitter will change the rule. We'll be fine.

More likely is Elon will post something that gives someone's location away and then they'll adjust it.

why adjust when they can just enforce the rules subjectively at will

I think because appearances matter. Not only does he want to enforce his will, he wants to do it in such a way that he comes off looking good.

"this is fine"

"Reporting that Elon Musk is being arraigned at LA County Court House violates our ban on live location reporting."

That’s nonsense.

Important question: does journalism need to be live information?

Journalism without live information is just History.

The point is to be able to affect outcomes.

I mean, I have a hard time finding issues with 24h or 7 days delayed journalism for small news. If you’re covering war, or the government, or something of public utility I can understand a live coverage tho

This change is going to make it very easy to shut down OSINT accounts that geolocate people.

Devils Advocate: why would that be a bad thing?

Because there is actual war going on?

Information about Russian government aircrafts or Putin's oligarchs private jets leaving country can be important in real time. Musk banned those too.

That's just him taking care of his friends.

It's Twitter. Militaries shouldn't be depending on Twitter accounts for their intel.

It's not about militaries since military planes mostly have their ADS-B transponder off. But OSINT community depend heavily on flight trackers and also on sharing location information with wide audience.

It's possible without Twitter, but bans for sharing of location information will make it much easier for Russia to block investigator accounts.

OSINT accounts provide detailed information on a number of global conflicts, not just the ones that get covered in the media. And the level of detail and analysis is almost always better than what you get in the mainstream media.

It wasn’t clear that parent was referring specifically to military OSINT and I took it more as general OSINT which is often of civilians, and can be less ethical and lead to false conclusions.

Reddit locating the boston bomber, etc.

Ah. I really have no interest in those accounts so I can't speak to them.

Only if they livestream. Most conflict reporting is delayed anyway due to OpSec, and most OSINT has a delay for image analysis before publication.

This feels like tweeting something like "hanging out with <person> at <restraunt>" is now a bannable offense? Am I missing something?

It's a hastily-written rule designed to ban Things Musk Doesn't Like while allowing things he does. See also the exception:

> In addition, you may not share private media, such as images or videos of private individuals, without their consent. However, we recognise that there are instances where users may share images or videos of private individuals, who are not public figures, as part of a newsworthy event or to further public discourse on issues or events of public interest. In such cases, we may allow the media to remain on the platform.

So vague it's impossible to determine in advance what's allowed and what's not.

So is Hunter Biden’s private media now banned again? Maybe not, as long as “Twitter” decides it is newsworthy (but in such a way that Elon’s media or location is not)? My head is spinning.

That was a rhetorical question?

do you like Agile sprints and changing priorities?

Man, I wouldn't want to be in the team of lawyers charged with writing this rule.

"You have 24 hours. You have to write some rules that make my private jet's flights that are public information available on a public website in real time disallowed, while also making Hunter Biden's hacked nudes allowed. Go."

"and also, make sure that hate groups can still post about trans meetups.

again, make it reasonable to protect me and my family but unreasonable to protect 'those' people."

If that person didn't want their location shared, they should be able to request the tweet be deleted. Multiple offenses against your account? I'd say yes, bannable.

> If that person didn't want their location shared

Is there anywhere in the policy that specifies that? By my read of the policy this is disallowed no matter what the other person thinks.

Hah. Excited to learn the ways it's gonna be completely different next week.

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