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Comment by minimaxir | Hacker News Reader

The other jet accounts run by the same person such as Jeff Bezos's jets (https://twitter.com/bezosjets) and Mark Zuckerberg's jets (https://twitter.com/zuccjet) were also suspended.

I look very much toward what moderation rationale Elon will give for this. He's most likely trying to avoid bias by banning all the jet accounts so he doesn't look like a hypocrite by only banning his own jet account (as noted in the previous thread), in which case, it's way too late for that.

EDIT: The official ban reason for the personal account suspension is violating rules "against platform manipulation and spam" (which, lol)

https://twitter.com/RMac18/status/1603118347716939776

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Especially because he specifically tweeted he would not ban it: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456?s=46...

haha, man. Friggin Elon couldn't keep it together for even a few weeks

At this rate the site is eventually just going to turn into a slightly right wing version of the same swamp it was before

edit: Easy there, lads. I'm not a hard-Leftist either. Just a Free Speech enjoyer

slightly?

The censorship never stopped. It was happening before Musk assumed his position, while he was getting settled in, and is continuing now. Twitter is a censorious platform, and its organizational and technical structure is very much conducive to this situation; nor could you reasonably expect someone like Mr. Musk to invest a lot of effort to change this.

The difference is the censorship used to be in an attempt to stop direct harm. Now it is in an attempt to stop annoying a billionaire.

No, the censorship was not at all limited to "stopping direct harm". Unless you redefine harm as "what Twitter owners/management decide is harmful", in which case that's true by-definition.

Classical case in point: https://twitter.com/JulianAssange

More of that "free speech absolutist" in evidence.

Doxxing people's location in real time is basically stalking.

It should have been taken down by previous management.

Turns out the FAA has been stalking people for decades. Can we also add "getting arrested is kidnapping actually" to this list of arbitrary interpretations?

Sorry but it's completely legal and anyone can look up the info as it's publicly available. It's also protected under the 1st amendment and court cases. It's not stalking, it's simply relaying already available public info in an easier to find place.

It's weird to ban just the one account, then all the others several hours later. Really makes it look like Musk's personal reaction to criticism.

I mean just call it as it is: totally that. He’s so thin skinned and petty. He spent 44bil of various people’s money to do what, exactly? Apart from own the libs, that is

It’s only taken what? Weeks? For him to show that the moderation policy wasn’t the problem. He just cared about whose finger was on the button.

Elon is a cokehead who just bought the biggest cartel.

We're watching a horrible social media addiction rage out of control in a person who has too many resources and power for anyone to tell him 'no'.

Elon was probably always a POS but on some level I feel bad for him like I feel bad for Notch. all that money, power, and opportunity and they can't help but to spend it all terminally online bickering with other terminally online people.

People don't choose to be like this.

I remember forum mod wars in the 2000s. Never thought there'd be billion dollar mod wars.

I don't feel too bad for him

If I got that first huge multimillion dollar payout he hit early in his career, I would've stopped there. I'd still just be quietly living in a modest house in a small town decades later

His twisted, broken personality is what enabled him to become a billionaire in the first place

Don't forget the birth lottery! I've lived in South Africa, and I've seen first-hand the human consequences of the policies that built his family wealth.

I see a lot of parallels with Freenode.

That was also running totally fine before a rich guy claimed ownership and started changing everything to his will, though the users were perfectly satisfied with how things were running till then.

People started to leave which annoyed him and he started to make ever more rules and eventually deleted all the channels. Which means that reputable channels for open-source projects were now owned by randos who just happened to be the first to join after the reboot. Chaos ensued.

The Twitter drama feels very similar. And that's not a good sign if we look at how Freenode played out. Freenode is now a fringe network. The previous management simply started a new network called Libera and two weeks later it was like the whole thing had never happened, just under a different name.

Twitter is a lot bigger sure but big things can fall too. And they have for lesser reasons. Think Yahoo or MySpace.

A lot of these owners seem to forget that the users are on their platform by free will. There is nothing tieing them down and it's only the tiny hassle of creating a new account that's a barrier to move.

>> to do what, exactly?

Elon's primary motivation, his 'Roko's Basilisk', is a massive DoD program, which requires Republicans to fund. Twitter helps him curry favors to earn these (potentially ~$1-2T) Republican-backed contracts.

Mike Griffin is the ringleader but he's only useful when Republicans are in power (see parts about Elon and Space Development Agency / SDI). https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Griffin#Career

The DoD program is a space constellation of ballistic missile defense satellites for tracking and targeting nuclear ballistic missiles, including HGVs and hypersonic cruise missiles".[110] " However, (UCS) warns developments could escalate tensions with Russia and China and called the project "fundamentally destabilizing".[111] They later called for a treaty halting development to prevent an arms race in space.[112]

Starlink's military satellite development is overseen internally at SpaceX by retired four-star general Terrence J. O'Shaughnessy.[113][114] O'Shaughnessy advocated before the United States Senate Committee on Armed Services for a layered space capability with lethal follow-on that incorporates machine learning and artificial intelligence to gather and act upon sensor data quickly.[115]

More info / references: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink#Military_capabilities

> O'Shaughnessy advocated before the United States Senate Committee on Armed Services for a layered space capability with lethal follow-on that incorporates machine learning and artificial intelligence to gather and act upon sensor data quickly

So basically a doomsday machine.

I understand the need for quick reaction but I really really would like to see a human in the chain to push the button. We've come way too close before like the Cuban crisis and Able Archer more specifically where all the data was screaming war but cool heads prevailed.

Trust the world in the hands of an AI? Please no.

>So basically a doomsday machine.

The whole point of a doomsday machine is lost if you keep it a secret!

It was to be announced at the Party Congress on Monday. As you know, the Premier loves surprises.

Not really as far as I understand? It's a deterrent?

I believe that is a quote from Dr. Strangelove

> Able Archer

And shortly before that started, Stanislav Petrov[1] saved us by using common sense to not press the button.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Soviet_nuclear_false_alar...

Oh yes this is the incident I was referring to, actually. I thought it was the same. Somehow I remembered the troop buildup of Able Archer confirmed the invasion fear for the Soviets. But it sounds like that played no part in it. I must have remembered it wrong.

> Somehow I remembered the troop buildup of Able Archer confirmed the invasion fear for the Soviets.

From what I remembered, and a quick scan of Wikipedia[1], you're not wrong.

"In response, the Soviet Union readied their nuclear forces and placed air units in East Germany and Poland on alert. The Soviet 4th Air Army began loading nuclear warheads onto combat planes in preparation for war."

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Able_Archer_83

I agree with you 100%. For all of humanities fallibleness, every averted nuclear close call was due to having a human in the loop[0] in one way or another. For instance, in 1960 Norway's sunrise was interpreted by radar in Greenland as a nuclear attack by the Soviet Union. Thankfully there were no automated responses, and humans in the loop realized the error quite quickly once they assessed all the surrounding facts

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_close_calls

[1]: I couldn't help but think of this skit and pronunciation when seeing O'Shaughnessy from Key & Peel (video is linked to the pronunciation but its worth watching in its entirety if you like this kind of humor)

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Dd7FixvoKBw&t=142

Just that the last American died doesn't mean the war is lost.

Did ... Did he not WATCH Terminator ?

It was meant to be a dystopia, not an instruction manual!

Or Dr. Strangelove

There is no AI gap!

a lot of his little projects have a wrong-message-from-scifi-distopia kind of vibe

Yes, like naming his drone ships after Iain M. Banks Culture ships. A universe where the good guys are the utopian communist space hippies, and the bad guys are billionaires with a monopoly on virtual Hells. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Detail)

This is one of the few posts I've seen touch on the question of: is there a pragmatic reason Elon would want to see a Republican or even "Trumpist" government.

In other words: does he actually care about any of that culture war shit or is it just about big contracts?

It's surprising how much information about his real motivations are drowned out by all his noisy fake controversies.

The controversies are pretty much driving themselves now.

I think that probably comes from a belief that whatever happens to the wider world, his billions will insulate him from any inconvenience. "Who cares if the proles are ground under the boot, countries are destroyed and misery rules the land...as long as I have my billions FU I got mine". I know a disturbingly large number of people who fundamentally believe this, and not just extravagantly wealthy people.

My priors:

50% i don't know, 30% military contracts, 20% he is way more stupid and thin skinned than I thought. (The last part is growing each weeks)

Did you hear about the twitter files? It shows some pretty serious election interference and also shows how various staff either lied directly to congress.

Pretty serious, huh?

I don’t think we read the same thing.

Excusing the selective leaking and the motivated journalists who have access to the documents to present a narrative through their view, the conversations to me revealed careful consideration and discussion rather than the vast conspiracy it’s presented as.

As long as we only get one carefully currated version, i call bullshit. Don't you agree that the taibbi posts are extremely suspect?

I thought the V2 would add context but its more of the same. I know plenty of accounts (and people) attacking the libs and advocating for action, one in particular active in RedneckRevolt, who were banned on way less hateful things (one helped find gunrange and explained how to make AP rounds). Reading about the internal mails of people at Twitter who chose to ban educational, pro-BPP accounts explaining to soft lefties why guns are good, and letting Proud boys and libsofticktocks who did the same without bans... Heh.

If it was both side (right and left) against the libs, why not, but this feel like propping up one side only.

He saw he got criticism for singling out one account, and then to look consistent he banned the others. This is easier than reinstating the original one and admiting error.

The tracking bots were labelled as bots long ago. @elonjet's handle was also shadowbanned in Twitter search. The suspension reason is so weak it only reinforces Elon's hypocrisy.

Looks like https://twitter.com/BillGatesJet is still up. Let's see how long that last. It feels to me like that's exactly it - he got called out and now he's banning others to make it seem like a blanket policy. As usual he's being impulsive and reactionary.

That's an offshoot: the correct account is https://twitter.com/GatesJet which was indeed suspended.

Ah, ok, I saw the link on another comment here - I don't track the trackers.

A notable exception:

https://twitter.com/gva_watcher

Why would Elon give any rationale?

For one thing, because he specifically stated that he wouldn't ban the @elonjet account: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456?s=46...

He also previously said he wanted to buy Twitter, and made a legally binding agreement to do so, before changing his mind..

Yes, he's not particularly consistent. Still, this was the account he held up as evidence that he was committed to free speech, because he refused to ban it even though he didn't like it. Now it’s banned.

Could Elon give any rationale? Rationale of course depending on internal consistency and coherency. Elon's public persona seems to be a mess of contradictions with itself.

Could say he's banning x kind of bots, where he back-fills x to describe the jet account.

At some point I think he'll move to just not even bothering explaining anything since he knows his fans will defend him. His justification could be literal gibberish, and his defenders would be resorting to the Kabbalah to try to translate it into something coherent.

You got down-voted, but I think you're onto something.

The last couple of weeks/months of Elon to me are just another instance of a much-replicated "no fact-checking required for popularity" pattern. It turns out it never was, we just didn't have the sort of media immediacy that made it an issue at scale before.

We need more general tools to deal with these cases.

Elon's plane scandal is the elon-gate plane.

Elongate is to lengthen, and plane is just plan with silence added.

So Elon's plane scandal -> secret long-term plan.

IT'S ALL 4D CHESS

(/s)

This strategy worked pretty well for Trump. Not a bad guess

He doesn't have to. However for a self-paraded "free speech absolutist" who literally said he would not suspend @elonjet in order to follow that principle, this act makes him a massive hypocrite and demonstrates his free speech advocacy to be nothing but a show.

Also, arbitrary suspensions like this when Twitter no longer has any decision-making council on such policies is not a good sign for corporate advertisers who prefer stability & reputation. Can't find those on a platform where one manchild has taken a dictatorial position.

The bubble that knows about this ban so far is relatively small. Will it reach the advertisers at all?

Edit: my bubble was too limited.

Every single major non-Fox-News news org has covered the story.

It's a top-three above-the-fold story on https://www.nbcnews.com/ at this moment; any large advertiser is going to have brand safety folks employed specifically to keep an eye on stuff like this.

Conspiracy theory time…

Perhaps there is actually a credible threat on Elon’s life? Starlink is providing internet services to Ukraine. Elon has seemingly waded into US partisan politics and become a controversial figure. If someone told me that Vladimir Putin put a green light on him, I would not find it outside the realm of belief.

But this is a total crackpot speculation for purposes of entertaining discussion on the internet.

They could just track him on the ElonJet on Facebook or Mastadon

Is ElonJet on Vknotakte though?

more likely non-crackpot non-conspiracy: perhaps Elon is actually just this stupid.

How exactly would banning Twitter account re-posting publicly available information affect his safety? Yeah Russian secret service is incompetent, but they are certainly able to google for "elon musk jet tracker".

Incompetent? Did you sleep through all the novochok poisoning? You clearly are not paying attention to world events.

Those poisonings left 75% of victims alive, didn’t they?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/23/skripal-salisb...

“The unmasking of the Salisbury poisoning suspects by a new digital journalism outfit was an embarrassment for Putin – and evidence that Russian spies are not what they once were.”

I didn’t say it was a plausible conspiracy theory :P

Ukraine put a green light on him for a hot minute when he suggested negotiation.

Simple question: do you think people's location should tracked and publicized? The answer is always no.

It's also against Twitter terms of service.

It's called a wedge. You are being forced into criticizing him for doing something that you actually want him to be doing.

Your only way out is to argue that doxing is okay for billionaires or something like that - which is basically saying "if I make enough money I think its okay to be personally harassed and doxed" - which is really tough to believe.

I do agree that tracking people and publicizing their location against their will should be banned. This is clear and obvious to me.

But, and this is a big but, Musk specifically used this account as an example of his commitment to free speech.

So if Elon Musk gets splashback on this, there's no one to blame but Elon Musk.

The people criticizing him are not upset that he is not upholding free speech commitments though. They are the ones that don't want free speech. They want more moderation and want stricter rules and policies, and more safety.

So here is a policy that everyone agrees with and increases safety on the platform. And they are not happy. It's such a funny situation.

It really demonstrates how tribal everything is. No one deals with individual events and circumstances. If you look at all the comments, there is a finite number of ways to evaluate this situation...and its seems like no one evaluates it critically. You could predict what each person will say. In fact, maybe I will try this in ChatGPT.

> They are the ones that don't want free speech

Content moderation and free speech are not mutually exclusive. Absolute free speech is not the only kind of free speech, nor is the definition of "free speech" the same globally.

> So here is a policy that everyone agrees with and increases safety on the platform. And they are not happy. It's such a funny situation.

Not upset, just confused that a free speech absolutist is banning people for exercising the version of free speech that he claims to be protecting.

I think the problem is the whole it's apparently ok to post people's location as long as it isn't Elon or maybe some other rich person. The problem is determining if you are posting for good or to incite violence.

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