SBF Written Testimony Notes 12/12/2022
assets.bwbx.io
assets.bwbx.io
This reads as if he wrote this himself with no legal supervision. Is he under oath with these statements?
I think the means "take investor money, make customers whole, thereby restore FTX, raise the company value and then pay back investors", which is not fraud. That being said, I wouldn't put it beyond him anymore to publicly suggest defrauding investors.
He opened with,
"I would like to start by formally stating, under oath: I fucked up."
This dude's lawyers are either fucked in the head or nonexistent.
I dunno if we need to go too far into the particulars of his life to explain it. When Popehat was talking about the legal troubles of people in Trump's orbit this came up a lot (and a lot of those people were lawyers!).
This reminds me of an old physicist-lawyer joke:
A physicist goes to see a lawyer. He knows that above all the lawyer is interested in getting his money. So the physicist not wanting to be taken for a sucker walks into the room and fires right away: - Hi, how much do you charge?
The lawyer fires back: - $400 for two questions. What is your second question?
The latter, the first batch quit already: https://futurism.com/the-byte/sam-bankman-fried-lawyers-quit...
Not sure who's representing him now.
He doesn't consider the bad case scenarios because in his mind, he'll have planned for them. But he is in this scenario. Which is a bad case. That he didn't plan for. That is bad because of his attitude and lack of planning.
He thinks he can somehow fast-talk Congress into thinking he didn't commit a crime.
He's going to go to jail thinking that the jury fucked up by finding him guilty. If they just understood, they'd realize he's better than everyone and deserves to be free and rich and to use your money.
He’s an active drug addict and career criminal. His ramblings about how it was someone else’s fault and he just needs someone to give him a little more money because his plans were sound make just as much sense coming from a white guy with impressive parents as they do coming from anyone else.
I'm basically calling him at best an average guy who believes he is brilliant because he got lucky and who now believes his own press release.
Regarding the "I fucked up" line, I'm not sure that is damaging at all (except possibly the tone; who knows how that will play with a jury).
His lawyers may intend to argue that he was merely made mistakes, and therefore had no intent to defraud anyone.
>>In a letter to former colleagues last week, he said he regretted filing for bankruptcy, claiming that “potential interest in billions of dollars of funding came in roughly eight minutes after I signed the Chapter 11 docs.”
>>He presented no evidence for that claim, and in any case, FTX was no longer his company to run.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/29/technology/sam-bankman-fr...
These are notes, not testimony. We do not know what questions would have been put to SBF. He was arrested so the scheduled hearing never happened.
Note it is rare to see anyone prosecuted for lying to Congress, and even more rare to be convicted. Remember this one:
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/97/06/29/r...
The maximum sentence for perjury or 18 USC 1001 is only 5 years anyway.
Even if SBF could raise billions to make his victims whole, he could still be convicted of wire fraud and other charges. Fraud that is unsuccessful or results in no loss is still a crime. SBF is trying to deflect attention away from what he has done. Is it working.
Which bank? FTX? FTX was in his own words an "exchange." An exchange holds customer funds in custody for immediate redemption. A bank lends customer funds out and can't meed a redemption surge.
Also, the conspiracy theorists claiming that this guy was swept out of the hearings to protect powerful people are in for a big disappointment. It's just more of the same line as before "I messed up, but I won't tell you specifically how and if I hint at it it will be self-serving."
It is not so critical whether the organization is formally a "bank" under a legal and regulatory definition, the economics are the same regardless.
I don't think there can be.
If all assets customers have title to are held 1:1 in the currency the liability is denominated in, there is no scenario I can see where FTX is unable to fulfill customer withdrawal requests. Even if customers make use of significant margin and FTX has to liquidate all of their margin positions at once due to tanking prices. The customer who pledged their assets as collateral have now forfeited them to FTX and so have no withdrawal to make, so no liquidity crisis. The customers who did not make use of margin should have their assets sitting there ready to be withdrawn. Can you explain how a liquidity crisis can occur through margin trading?
FTX may lose significant sums of money, and face a solvency crisis (they may have to shut down margin trading altogether), but it should always be able to give customers their assets back. Unless they are misusing customer assets for other things.
FTX didn’t suffer a bank run. Diamond-Dybvig describes a bank trying “to call in their loans,” borrowers being “unable to pay back quickly, since their loans were, by assumption, used to finance long-term investments,” and thus “if all depositors attempt to withdraw their funds simultaneously, a bank will run out of money long before it is able to pay all the depositors” [1]. The bank was solvent. Then it was illiquid. Illiquidity finally caused insolvency.
FTX was not solvent to start with. Alameda owed them more than it was worth. The FTT position within Alameda resembles a bank run, but that characterisation is problematic since FTT wasn’t financing anything long term and was issued by an “exchange” doing fraud.
They first said they did (we're not insolvent, we're illiquid) but that's already fraud. Then turns out they were also insolvent, as suspected.
So yes, please, more pedantry now, to prevent any more attempts at "narrative drift"
>“I have potentially pertinent information concerning future opportunities and financing for FTX and its creditors. I also believe that I have relevant financial information about FTX US, and further that I have potentially relevant regulatory information concerning FTX"
It's difficult to read that and not think he's become entirely divorced from reality. Weren't his ideas about "future opportunities and financing" and "relevant regulatory information" exactly the cause of this entire mess?
Clamming up and speaking only through counsel might have changed things in November, but it's too late now. May as well throw your Hail Mary.
It's the same sort of logic that pervades the entire project. What would you do in a world where crypto prices only go up? Try it in the real world and see what happens.
There is a lesson here to future entrepreneurs. There is often a lot more money in the long term for those doing the boring work of cleaning up messes than for those building paper wealth and spending it on football sponsorships and other branding.
https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/63981b...
https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/63981b...
So not only is he admitting to conspiracy, he's just entered it in the Congressional record!
It was extremely weird for CZ to accuse SBF of trying to depeg Tether with a $250k short. I don't know what to make of that.
Also strange is how CZ asked for group admin permission from another person at FTX and then went right away to asking if anyone objected to removing SBF from the group. I guess the group was managed by FTX and CZ was attempting to take control of it as FTX was collapsing.
CZ, not yet fully aware that he is dealing with an unsophisticated bumbler (and thus the risk that this chat would someday be part of congressional testimony), is talking candidly but at cross purposes with Sammy.
CZ knows (and presumes SBF also knows) how incredibly thin this market's liquidity really is, and thus the potential destabilization that a mere 250k signal could ignite. while Sammy apparently believes something closer to version of the numbers meant for public FOMO consumption.
This little screenshot, (if not eventually proven fabricated, which is almost certainly going to be the counter signal message by CZ, parroted across the crypto community) likely is the biggest bombshell tell in this testimony so far.
SBF: "Are you claiming that 250k of USDT would depeg it?"
CZ: "no, I don't think 100x that size will succeed. It just cause small issues here and there"
Not sure what small issues CZ is referring to, but he's the expert here
What's not being pointed out here is that to CZ, and actually even to Sam, there really is no distinction here between Alameda and FTX. CZ is calling him on a position taken by Alameda, via their "Exchange chat," to coordinate between FTX and Binance.
It's a lot better than 500 "I don't recall"s.
Also, in today's world, I hold people in contempt that hold congress in respect. So what makes them feel disrespected isn't that high of an "ooooh, burn" kind of moment to see they felt slighted.
Is that because you don't believe that most congressional representatives act according to the will of their constituents? Or because you don't believe that the will of most constituents is worthy of respect?
Don't get me started on the respect for the constituents themselves. That's such a non-HN friendly conversation.
So the stacked Supreme Court issuing absurd rulings is not actually corrupt, but just appears corrupt?
Citizens United and further erosions of campaign financing laws that give corporations direct access to politicians isn't actually corruption, just legal free speech?
My belief is that you have to be beyond naive to hand-wave away the current generation of bad-faith politic
People ruling against what you want is not corruption.
Do you think that a ruling that went 7-2 and 8-1 in the past being reviewed for a third time for some reason that happens to go 6-3 along party lines makes sense in any light besides corruption and "legislating from the bench"? Please discuss.
But, since you brought it up, can you point out any laws passed since CU that were pushed by lobbyists, but were broadly unpopular with the general public? Or laws that failed to pass due to a lobbying effort, despite being broadly popular with the general public? Anything were we can trace this supposed corrupting effect of direct corporate influence and see a result that is actually contrary to what the electorate wants?
I agree it was a bad ruling and should be overturned, but I don't think the doomsday scenarios predicted after the ruling have actually happened. I'm open to being proven wrong though, show me what you got.
The Supreme Court has decided that corporations are people and we're dealing with the aspects of that. The Supremes then decided that civil rights were okay to no longer have protections, so we're now dealing with that. The Supremes decided that men get to decide what health care women can have.
Why would Congress need to act when the Supremes are legislating from the bench on their behalf, only they don't take the hit because it was the Supremes that did it.
He wants it to be crass because it is intended to be offensive, not very offensive, but just offensive enough that it sticks in peoples minds for a bit longer. He wants it to stick because it is his only defense and every second his audience are considering how disrespectful he is, they do not think about how he is lying.
The problem with "I fucked up" is not the language, it is the fact that it is false. And if congress is commenting on the former, but not the later, it had the intended effect.
SBF wants to persuade the reader of his thesis, which appears to be that he was acting in good faith and continues to advocate for his customers who are being materially harmed by the obstruction of the chapter 11 team. And his call to action is for his readers to help him resolve his disputes with the chapter 11 team.
Considering these goals, not only is opening with "I fucked up" a counterproductive phrase and a wasted opportunity for a more effective opening, but the rest of his testimony is even less persuasive on its merits alone. I'm not sure he advanced his progress toward either of those goals with his testimony.
But I do think he will find sympathy from some libertarian crypto advocates (at least those who can get past their suspicions that SBF is controlled opposition from a cabal of corrupt bureaucrats intent on regulating exchanges and introducing central bank digital currencies).
While I agree that he shouldn't have used those words, I certainly wouldn't in any communications, I am not sure there is anyone in congress that is actually deserving of respect; morons everywhere you look.
Oh, and using seven of your 18 page testimony to basically distract from the issue at hand - seems more like a petulant child throwing a tantrum than a serious person running a multi-billion dollar business. Good lord.
That's the beauty of merkle trees-- you just go into your own local copy (or merely paste one from a friend's copy), check your hashes are correct, then upload it to whatever other centralized discovery service of your choice and keep doing business. Even if colluding centralized bad actors tried to append some junk, it only takes one honest friend (or honest you) to get you back to the correct level of nesting dolls. And as long as you can find one honest centralized discovery service to wrap it in, you're back to your original level of convenience.
Oh wait, that's git I'm thinking of. Yeah, these customers are absolutely fucked.
It's not dissimilar to some of the ripped athletic types I'm friends with that try and use their size to an advantage even when the situation definitely doesn't call for it. If a tongue-lashing or an ass-kicking is the immediate gut response, it's probably not the most pragmatic, I've found.
And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.
And if it was, that’s not a big deal.
And if it is, that’s not my fault.
And if it was, I didn’t mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
They know it's not smart to leave a trace :)
In fact, how does data retention rules specifically apply to apps that don't have large data retention or specifically have no data retention. Besides just making it harder to operate, are there penalties for companies using things like free version of Slack with short windows, or Snapchat/Telegram/Signal with self destructing messages?
Presumably the authorities would get the data from Slack directly.
I think SBF is crucified on this alone.
This might nail Binance on antitrust charges [1]. If we lack jurisdiction, then on market manipulation of a U.S.-dollar linked asset.
He does not regret what he did. He regrets what "happened".
> i) We signed an LOI that prevented us from talking to other potential investors as long as the negotiations with Binance were ongoing. > ii) During that time, I received serious expressions of interest from multiple potential investors who represented billions in capital that could have gone to customers. I was inhibited in responding by the LOI.
and then:
> 5) At roughly 4:30 am on November 10th, 2022, against my better judgment, I clicked on a Docusign link that would nominate John Ray as the CEO of various entities. > 6) Less than 10 minutes later I received a potential funding offer for billions of dollars to help make customers whole
I never read what this guy said before this meltdown so I can't actually judge for myself, but, were there signs that this clown was there? these are toddler-level lies.
Even if they were made whole, there would still have been fraud. A crime doesn't disappear because you tried to rectify it on your own, though you might get let off the hook a little.
Why haven’t they?
> “pinky swear, I promise US citizen/ residents won’t be as fucked”
As of now, there is no indication that this is actually true as far as I am aware. So other countries don't really have a better case and there is hardly any money to be reclaimed from him.
Also SBF: "Why won't the bankruptcy team listen to me and take my advice?"
I was about to comment on how delusional SBF must be to be this deep in trouble and not snap out back out to reality, leaving aside that "edgy teenager" or whatever mien he's been exhibiting. Is he actually aware of his situation?
Perhaps the move to Fox Hill will help him come to terms with what he's done.
> I would like to start by formally stating, under oath:
> I fucked up.
The second quote is a pretty apt summary of what feels like roughly half the document (I didn't specifically count pages)--there's a lot of criticism of the Chapter 11 bankruptcy team, especially that he felt they were ignoring the offers he had received to keep FTX alive.
Indeed, to the extent that it's a misrepresentation of the testimony, it's because it doesn't refer to another key focus of the testimony "it was actually CZ's fault!"
I am aware that "I fucked up" is a direct quote. The latter statement is not. Don't feign quotes from people if what you're dealing in is not actually a quote. This isn't hard.
And nothing changes the part where the parent comment is a low-effort, Twitter-tier, bandwagon shitpost crafted for lols. It doesn't belong here.
(And you're wrong; it is everyone's responsibility to make sure that the level of discourse on HN meets an acceptable standard. Making up snarky quotes in contravention to requests not to do that—with or without a reminder about doing so—does not satisfy that standard.)
* * * * *
> make sure you're following HN's guidelines while posting. There has been a drop in comment quality lately. Not cool.
> Here's the short version. Good: thoughtful, curious conversation. Bad: snark, fulmination, and flamewar.
That raises the question of why they didn't keep the same management for the chapter 11 reorganisation.
You linkedin account? It's like the end of the (excellent) Scrubs episode "My Screwup": "Where do you think we are?".
One of us is not understanding the situation, and I don't think it's the grownups.
There's nothing to gain, and everything to lose. Even if there's minimal chance of anything being there, the mere perception that evidence could have been lost would be damning.
“ Mr. Madison, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
[1] https://nypost.com/2022/11/14/how-world-economic-forum-other...
Wait ... so who is "Mr. Ray" working for now? IIRC it was called there by SBF in the first place.
FTX's creditors.
I will withhold judgment until the inevitable fact-checking.
I think this case will end up in case-law textbooks. It's going to generate so much precedent.
But a lot of the points he makes about the role of CZ and the bankruptcy lawyers are quite correct.
People will do the usual thing: talk about SBF in hushed tones, FTX goes bankrupt, well the guy is just a total idiot...and I agree, the guy seems like a total idiot, the interviews, the way he is behaving now...it is childish. But he is also saying stuff that is quite correct (for example, pointing out the Sullivan Cromwell immediately took their $4m but ghosted him when he was trying to talk about an offer...whether it was true or not, Sullivan Cromwell had a responsibility to check, they didn't, and they didn't because they will see way more fee income that way...I have seen this happen over and over).
The world has to be black and white in these cases, but isn't. I have no doubt that SBF committed crimes but I would gently point out: the bankruptcy lawyers have a vested interest in certain questions not being answered immediately, Ray is working at $1.5k/hour, and will be billing 10+ hours a day...for 5+ years if they are able to...$15k/day...again, FOR YEARS. That is, potentially, $20m+ of basically guaranteed income. The business is exceptionally profitable and these people are skilled in milking these cases dry (to the cost of creditors, these cases are...contrary to what people think...not terribly complicated, even with Lehman a lot of the claims were sold on...it was an international business though, so you had global law firms sink their teeth in hard).
The horse has bolted. The fact it got to that point is the point, not what happens afterwards. The fraud and whatever else has already been committed.
Anyone pointing fingers at the bankruptcy team are attempting to distract from the core issue (which is precisely why SBF is doing it - don't look at the monumental mess I made, look how badly they're trying to clean it up).
The bankruptcy team is working to fix his mess, but they are first and foremost working for an hourly rate.
Also I do find it somewhat credible that he drank his own cool-aid.
Important disclaimer: I would never associate "price of token goes up" with "value was created". The only way to create wealth (sustainably) is to create value in the world & capture some %age of that value.
However, I do somewhat believe that he may have thought the many-year run of on-paper profits was more material than it actually was. In the same way that many gamblers believe they have a system, etc.
Looks like Caroline got her bag and is out.
At best, she'll get a lighter sentence for co-operating. There's no chance in hell anyone will outright pay her for whistlerblowing.