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Comment by rootusrootus | Hacker News Reader

I have no interest in giving a stranger my account number. Heck, for Zelle I'd have to give them my email address and that's already too much.

Chip & pin for most people is less convenient, so you'd not find too many Americans thinking they were behind in that regard. The PIN does give some added security, which is great if you are a bank because it's easier to justify denying any fraud claims.

About the only thing I might agree on that is a meaningful limit is sending money between my accounts at different institutions. Instant only if I do it at the branch, less instant if I want to make it happen through my smartphone.

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The account number/sort code combination alone is not usable by a fraudster to withdraw money in any way in the U.K., so perhaps this is where the disconnect is. You’d need to physically go to a branch and present the bank card and enter the PIN number, or present photo ID with matching details to the account.

There are “direct debits” that allow companies to draw money from an account, but they can only be set up by businesses, there are special guarantees, etc. etc. that mean the bank is liable to reimburse you immediately under the “Direct Debit Guarantee” if you report a fraudulent transaction.

> The PIN does give some added security,

It prevents gas pumps from stealing credit card numbers, which up until chip and pin that was a huge problem.

Same with random non bank ATMs. General advice was either go to a bank ATM or you'd get your credit card # stolen.

> I have no interest in giving a stranger my account number. Heck, for Zelle I'd have to give them my email address and that's already too much.

Zelle's sending limits are way too low. Can't pay rent with it, in the USA, still have to mail a check in many places to pay rent. Sure the bank automates paying mailing the check, but here is the stupid process:

1. Renter tells bank to auto mail a check to landlord 2. Landlord receives paper check, uses mobile phone app to deposit check into their account 3. Bank makes funds instantly available, then at some point someone manually reviews the images of the check to make sure it is real. 3a. If the check is too large, funds are not immediately available.

Or, to put it another way, because neither of our banks don't allow online wire transfers, the easiest way for my wife and I to send each other non-trivial amounts of money is to write a physical check to each other! That is insane.

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