“Eeny, meeny, miny, mo” and the ambiguous history of counting-out rhymes (2015)

There is also another interesting unwritten rule of the English language at play here. The rule goes like this:

In a series of words which differ only (or mostly) by the vowel used, the order should be e, i, a, o

- tic tac toe

- flim flam

- ding dong

- king kong

If you doubt it, try saying the opposite and hear how odd it sounds: The clock went 'Tock Tick'

I'm fascinated by this. In my native Russian, there's a children's counting rhyme "ene bene raba kvinter finter zhaba" (and the more popular "eniki beniki were eating vareniki").

You can see some resemblence of "ene bene" to "eeny meeny...", and "kvinter finter" to "tethera, methera".

I'm mostly puzzled how it was spread. How did children in Russia learn about this? It's not like it was very common in Russia to see someone from Britain, especially in the countryside.

>In the canonical Eeny Meeny, “tiger” is standard in the second line, but this is a relatively recent revision.

I'm old enough that as a young child I heard adults reciting both versions (U.S. urban location). Since this is about "ambiguous history", I noticed that it seems none of the other languages have versions that are as explicitly derogatory/racist as the original English version.

>The shared genetics of all these counting-out ditties strongly imply an ür-Eeny Meeny. And several folklorists have proposed various etymologies based on the content of some versions of Eeny Meeny, trying to derive significance from some variation of the gibberish. These prehistories range from charmingly whimsical to patently bogus.

I wonder how often it happens that the leaders of any society imbue secondary messages into these counting-out rhymes as a way of indoctrinating the children?

[edit] I just re-read the following, which elaborates on this idea:

>The original “Catch a n*** by the toe,” according to Bickerton, points to the rhyme’s roots in an African American community.

> Some are mondegreens, a term coined by the author Sylvia Wright when she heard “And laid him on the green” as “And Lady Mondegreen.” (“ ’Scuse me while I kiss this guy” is a mondegreen for Jimi Hendrix’s lyric “ ’Scuse me while I kiss the sky”, and Taylor Swift’s long list of ex-lovers are lonely Starbucks lovers.)

Oh there’s a word for this. The first time I was in the U.S. I was looking for an ATM and someone said there was a biyouvet down the road. I wasn’t sure what a biyouvet was but it sounded French and exotic. I asked them if the biyouvet had ATMs and was assured it did, and went on my way to find the aforementioned biyouvet - before I could though I found a Bank of America which did in fact have ATMs.

If no adults were listening, we preferred Ip Dip for the increased profanity, especially the last version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ip_dip

A longer rhyme was this (hyphens showing where the unstressed word isn't the next child)

  There's-a party on-the hill, can-you come?
  Bring-your own bread-and butter and-a bun.
  Who is your best friend?
  James [By landed-on child]
  Jay ay em e es
  You are NOT IT!

With this, you could choose a suitable name and ensure you were out/not-yet-out accordingly.

I love mondegreens.

In high school, one of my best friends grew up thinking the song was "secret asian man"

Lots of presumably learned research and obscure historical fact in that article. But it continually states that eeny-meeny is a 'counting system' eg. "used by shepherds to count their sheep" etc.

Eeeny-meeny is not a counting system. Why would people use a nonsense rhyme to count things? It makes no sense (literally!). Eeny-meeny is used as a 'random selection system' when choosing arbitrarily from a series of options.

Odd to get that basic fact wrong in such an in-depth article.

These kinds of etymologies are so fun. Other interesting “schoolyard sayings” to look up are high five (surprisingly recent) and rock‐paper‐scissors (surprisingly old).

The "Eeny meeny" rhyme with the objectionable N word in the second line was the first version I learned on the playground as a kid. I didn't know what that word meant, and was quickly disabused by my parents when I repeated it.

A couple of fun ones heard on the playground growing up in Mumbai, India:

Inky pinky ponky father had a donkey donkey died father cried inky pinky ponky!!

Dip dip dip oh god please tell me who will give the den in this very fairy old game A E I O U and that fell on YOU!

Ene mene miste, es rappelt in der Kiste.

Ene mene meck. Und du bist weg.

Arabic version:

- Hady bady

- Kromb Zabady

- Shalo Hatto

- Kollo Alady

Literal translation:

- One-er Start-er

- Cabbage Yugort

- They lift up, They put down

- Everything on this one

We always used to say,

Eeny, meeny, miny mo, Catch a tiger by the toe, If he hollers, let him go, Out goes Y, O, U.

...which adds an extra syllable.

Swedish version:

- Ole Dole Doff

- Kinke Lane Koff

- Koffe Lane Binke Bane

- Ole Dole Doff

The words mean nothing, though Ole happens to be a Nordic given name.

Spanish version:

Tin marín dedó pinguë

Cucara mácara títire fue

Yo no fui, fue Teté

Pégale pégale que ella fue