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Comment by scott_w | Hacker News Reader

Honestly, this isn’t surprising. Typically external process change struggles to take root because the person isn’t there long enough to really understand the team, the problems, the culture, etc.

I don’t think this is the consultant’s fault, either. Usually the company doesn’t want to pay the money or time to do this.

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Speaking as a consultant who's work does hold up, part of the job of a consultant is to make sure clients are aware of what's needed to succeed, and to turn down work that won't succeed. No matter how tempting the fee may be.

(I realize that many of my colleagues don't do this. Fie, I say. Fie!)

I'm not sure why you think I've done a bad job implementing these methodologies.

I've actually done a GREAT job. These teams shipped.

But I realized that they didn't ship because of the actual methodologies but the core set of values we implemented as a team.

ergo, these methodologies are a sham.

you should write that blog post about that core set of values. I think a lot of people have trouble recognizing success when it's not tied to a named concept, brand, or methodology.

My statement wasn't actually directed at you—I don't know you! Sorry it sounded like a criticism.

I was responding to @scott_w saying that process change not taking root isn't the consultant's fault, because companies don't want to pay for good process change. I disagree: I think it's the consultants job to be clear about what's needed to succeed, and not work for companies that don't want to pay for good work.

Regarding methodologies, I agree that successful teams internalize the principles behind their methods and leave the by-the-book methodologies behind. I think you're being overly cynical, though. Beginners need a concrete place to start. It's like saying cookbooks are a sham because expert chefs don't need them.

fair point about needing the beginners for a place to start.

The turnover issue we're seeing in the industry definitely doesn't help with seniors leading the way. which ends up being a problem top to bottom

I didn’t specifically apportion blame. I just said I don’t blame the consultant in the case where it doesn’t succeed due to lack of investment. Yes, you can say consultants should enforce that but many don’t. I can’t say I blame them when they need to pay the bills and there’s a paying customer.

How would you have established the core set of values otherwise? Sometimes teams click, & sometimes an egomaniac inside a team can destroy the product—and end the team. I’ve seen it.

What agile/scrum was supposed to do was kill waterfall, and provide more transparency in how a project it product was actually proceeding with demonstrations of execution or lack thereof.

Wonder if any incidental successes can be blamed on throwing out the backlog and figuring out what’s actually a priority

this is one way

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