German states and federal government agreed on nationwide 49€ ticket coming 2023
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The ticket is huge in terms of lowering the barriers of entry and simplifying the system. So far monthly passes are specific to each region, and then you have to figure out how many fare zones you will be crossing etc. With this you pay 49€ per month and can just jump in any bus or train without thinking about it (as long as you remember which kinds of trains are excluded and need proper tickets).
PS but the Swiss all-inclusive ticket is WAY more expensive, like 10x...
49 Euros is not completely covered under the unemployment allowence by the state. The max for that is 45 Euros.
Additionally, making the price 29 Euros would mean double the expected ticket sales and ultimately more money that could be used for upkeep and expansion.
Do you have any justification for that claim, or is that just pulling figures out of thin air?
If reducing the price by less (!) than half would that clearly mean double (!) the sales we wouldn't have had the debate we had now – which partly apparently was because the original 3 billion headline figure was estimated based on a ticket price of 69 €, but then the oh-so-wise politicians thought that 49 € would be an even nicer figure. Only on closer calculation it turned out that the additional sales from that lower price very likely wouldn't offset the additional losses generated by all already existing customers paying even less.
[0] https://presseportal.greenpeace.de/219048-greenpeace-kalkula...
[1] https://www.greenpeace.de/publikationen/Kalkulation_Klimatic...
Current NYC subway unlimited is $127/month and doesn't include the commuter rails. If I wanted to have a monthly pass to the suburbs upstate where my in-laws live (a 50 min ride) it's $322/month.
But least we have freedom here, right? /s.
Hamburg-Munich -- 600 km -- 6 h vs. 12 1/2 h vs. 8 1/2 h
Berlin-Munich -- 500 km -- 4 h vs. 9 h vs. 6 1/2 h
Cologne-Munich -- 450 km -- 4 1/2 h vs. 9 h vs. 6 h
Frankfurt/M-Munich -- 300 km -- 3 h vs. 5 h vs. 4 1/2 h
Nuremberg-Munich -- 150 km -- 1 h vs. 2 h vs. 2 h
Conclusion: The long distance trains are aprox. twice as fast. On longer distances the car is half-way in-between, on shorter distances, the car is only marginally faster than local transport.Train times from bahn.de; Car from Google Maps.
EDIT: I found an interesting exception, where long distance trains and the rest differ a lot on a short distance:
Mannheim-Stuttgart -- 93 km -- 38min vs. 1h 50min vs. 1h 23min.edit: in the English version the correct thing to tick is "Types of Transport" > "Regional services, other trains", after you click the "Further Options" button.
edit2: w.r.t
> monthly pass to the suburbs upstate where my in-laws live (a 50 min ride)
This is usually covered by S-Bahnen in Germany, and those are usually under the same ticket as the underground. In most places ~it's around 80ish for such a monthly ticket.~ (edit3: this last part about the price is wrong, see below.)
Sure about that? A one-month ticket just for the city of Cologne (1 Million people) is 109.70 Euros. A regular one-month ticket that would include surrounding towns as far away as Bonn (30 minutes) costs 259.30 Euros [VRS level 4]. If you want to reach Düsseldorf (40 minutes) or Aachen (50 minutes), that's 351.40 Euros [VRS level 7].
Of course it's a bit cheaper if you get a yearly pass and much cheaper if your employer chips in, but the 49 Euro ticket will be a _huge_ improvement. And NYC doesn't sound all that bad in comparison to the regular rates of today.
Commuter rail typically covers about 30mi in about an hour, unless it's a tram or an underground.
1: German, but has pictures: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional-Express
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Bahn_Mitteldeutschland with the https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Talent_2 should do it, too, in parts.
But haven't used the latter, so can't vouch for lack of personal experience.
Anyways, 160kph==100mph, so even the slowish stuff is really 'highballing' it :-)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_transport_ass...
The current minister of justice is considering to analyze if the law can be changed to make it just a misdemeanor (Ordnungwidrigkeit).
That said, I fully support Buschmann's initiative. Best minister of justice since a really long time.
Most expensive kilometer of my live. Had I known, I had walked the short distance between the stations.
i kinda assumed that's what they were talking about, but it seems like something that probably should have been a bit closer to the top
If you were to use the €49 ticket for a train ride from Munich to Berlin (around 360 miles) it would take you 5 different trains and close to 9 hours to get there. With the ICE: No transfers and the journey is cut down to 4 hours. Price: €168 without discounts. If you book weeks in advance you can get a ticket for around €50.
Each metropolitan area has its own company running public transportation. This €49 ticket, like the €9 ticket that was tested for 3 months in the summer of 2022, is valid in almost every city and town in Germany. No matter who operates the trains or buses.
For comparison, a ticket that allows you to travel all of the fare zones in and around Nuremberg, Bavaria is €245 per month. That’s an area of about 6100 square miles.
All prices include the reduced sales tax, which is currently at 7%.
It's already publicly funded for most of the budget. You can scrap ticketing systems/gates and use the conductors somewhere else in the economy.
It won't happen, not because it's more expensive, but because governments like to keep track off movements.
When electric cars were fairly new, free chargers were fairly common and people would horrendously abuse them. They would leave their cars plugged in past the time the charge was complete. So the people who wanted to charge their batteries every minute their car was idle spoiled it for the rest, even people who desperately needed to charge.
So I think of the same thing wrt public transportation. I believe NYC had enough subsidies that they could make their subways free, but the behavior of outliers like people who would live on the trains spoiled it for the rest.
(but yes, tracking)
You can buy any ticket in cash at the automatic ticket machines. I don't think it's that, the government has enough cameras to track you in general, they don't really need ticket records.
Especially considering that tracking the general population by phone is much easier and efficient.
But yes there's quite a lot of overhead in the ticket system, it would certainly be more efficient to just fund everything from general taxes.
> governments like to keep track off movements.
This doesn't make sense, train subscriptions don't make this possible. I have a train subscription but am only checked 1 times out of 10. The other 9 times no one knows where and when I got on or off the train. (Except if they examine the cameras in the stations.) A single ticket also only has a date, no time. And until a few years ago, conductors still 'cut' those, with an 'analog' tool; it's only recently they started scanning them.
It is possible that is the long-term goal. Getting there may be incremental, and providing a 49EUR ticket could be one step in that direction. Convincing people to do "all free" may only be possible by first agreeing to a lower-cost ticket.
Given that situation, I definitively would have mostly preferred better rather than cheaper public transport, but apparently everyone has succumbed to a frenzy of "free, free, free, gimmie, gimmie, gimmie!"…
[1] E.g. Hessen is right now still cutting its public transport budget in order to balance debts caused by Covid, Baden-Württemberg has cancelled a stated goal of increased service quality (a goal of providing public transport at least every half hour even in rural areas and every 15 mins in urban areas) before it ever really got started because it now has to finance its share of the 49 €-ticket and doesn't want to spend even more [2], etc. etc.
[2] I don't want to be too ultra-harsh on the latter – compared to a low point in terms of financing in the mid-/late-2000s, things have definitively improved and the state government is definitively spending more on public transport again, but clearly not limitless amounts more.
As a German taxpayer, I’m absolutely fine with the 49 EUR ticket not covering the fast trains, but making in-region commuting cheaper and simpler. A Nürnberg-only ticket is something on the order of 60 EUR/mo with an annual contract or 80 if you can’t commit, so this is going to be at least 10 EUR/mo. back in the pockets of a lot of people it really matters to (tickets that cover suburbs like Erlangen are even more expensive).
It semms like an odd policy to split public transport into a cheap, crowded and unreliable part while you have nice modern trains running half empty.
Anecdotally, reserving a ticket (with a seat) on IC/Es on the same day as you travel has been quite hard for me unless you splurge on 1st class or travel at unusual times. I do travel on quite a busy route however.
People spend hundreds a month commuting by car so the issue is not the price of train tickets, it's that people prefer to drive as it's more comfortable and convenient. But now, if you cannot park or it will cost you a fortune you'll think 'fuck it, I will take the train'.
My point is that cutting ticket prices isn't going to make people suddenly use public transport because it's not an affordability issue.
Obviously it depends on where in Germany you are but in/around Berlin while driving is often faster it’s usually not such a big gap because you’d be stuck in traffic in a car but not on the train. It would often be more like ~50 minutes instead of 40 (but then you can read a book on the Regio/S-Bahn instead of focusing ok driving).
Of course trains have some advantages, too.
Google Maps also suggests 6.5 hours by car compared to 4.5 hours by train between Munich and Berlin.
Studies circulating in the media showed deviating results in this respect. For an opposing view: The Association of German Transport Companies (Verband Deutscher Verkehrsunternehmen, VDV) published results from one of their surveys in August, claiming that 10% of those that purchased the 9€ ticket did without at least one of their daily car journeys. 43% mentioned the avoidance of car journeys as one of their reasons for purchase.[1] Of course, this is only a sample of what is happening and is based on self-reporting by clients. But for a start, I think it is not so bad.
[1] https://www.vdv.de/bilanz-9-euro-ticket.aspx (in German)
I don't know – I suppose you could say any car journey avoided is an improvement, but given the quite radical reduction of fares a figure of only 10 % avoided car journeys stills seems rather disappointing and to my mind rather confirms what was already known beforehand – while ticket prices should be reasonable and not outrageously expensive, the actual key to significantly reducing daily car usage (instead of mostly having people just make additional journeys using public transport) is by improving actual service quality and not by merely making tickets cheaper.
E.g. locally there was project where after a significant improvement in services (up to three departures per hour instead of only roughly hourly at best, plus direct connections into the city centre instead of having to change partway), 40 % of the passengers on that line were former car users!
That's what I'd call an actual success story, but unfortunately it seems that everybody has succumbed to some sort of "cheap, cheap, cheap" mania, and of course for politics slashing fares is an easier win instead of actually improving the infrastructure and somehow dealing with the evolving staff shortage [1] or the increasing planning bureaucracy [2].
[1] Not just drivers, even though that might be the most immediately visible to the general public – e.g. the local state government still doesn't seem to feel any sort of urgency in finally getting the now vacant chair of the railway department at my former university filled again, even though the former professor has been pensioned off already quite a few years ago and it's not as if we didn't also have a shortage of engineers for planning and construction, too.
[2] Instead of actual improvements, we only got a "Planning Speedup Law" ("Planungsbeschleunigungsgesetz") which in practice has hardly sped up anything at all, and sometimes possibly even made things worse (e.g. by having centralised the handling of planning enquiries at the Federal Railway Agency – but without actually correspondingly increasing staffing levels there). The only bright spot from the point of view of public transport in general and the railways in particular (though on the other hand it doesn't paint that good a picture for Germany as a whole) is that the transition of maintenance and planning of motorways from the states to the new federal "Autobahn GmbH" has been similarly botched up, and apparently the new Autobahn GmbH has quite rapidly managed to make itself rather unpopular, both as an employer for individual engineers, as well as as a contracting entity for the various individual construction and engineering companies that handle most of the actual serious work.
With regard to the "Planning Speedup Law" I am extremly sceptical too. I fear that in most cases this will result in the quality of planning suffering without an overall improvement in the situation. As soon as the stakeholders have adjusted to shorter planning processes, they will very likely submit projects at shorter notice and there will be complaints about too long process times again. At the same time, there will often not be enough time to examine the problematic points of the projects in sufficient detail and to look for better solutions.
But, I don't think that many people need a national ticket on a daily basis, and indeed people won't switch because of the very cheap price. Cars are vastly more expensive and people still prefer to drive.
There is a lot of politics involved, I think. Some think that public transport should be very cheap or even free (which of course actually means it's paid via general taxation) but really I don't think it makes a difference on behaviour because people can afford to pay even hundreds of euros a month if they have to.