Hacker News Reader

Comment by jeffbee | Hacker News Reader

I usually recommend electric bikes from actual bike companies, like Specialized, because there won't be any weird surprises, you won't have to assemble it yourself, and it will last forever. But everyone I know, other than myself, has gone with a newer electric-only company like Rad or VanMoof. I assume price is the reason.

View on HN

What makes Rad not a bike company? They don't make high end bikes, but they do design and build their own bikes and run a network of shops.

If you go by share of profit from bikes versus other sources I would not be surprised at all if they get more than trek or specialized. Trek/Bontrager and Specialized are notorious in the bike industry for requiring dealers to move accessories if they want to stock bikes. They make a TON of money of accessories at this point

Last time I was given one to ride for a month Rad bikes were basically aliexpress bikes with very crude Bafang electronic assistance which is lightyears behind what Shimano, Bosh, Yamaha or Brose provide.

You don't have to be state of the art to be a bike company. Part of their appeal for me is that they aren't 'state of the art'. They use commodity parts which means that I think they'll be repairable for a lot longer, and they also cost less than half of any of the other brands you mention (just for context, the cheapest Giant e-bike powered by Yamaha costs more than double what a Rad costs, and has a smaller battery).

Kia makes cheap cars using less than cutting edge technology, but that doesn't mean that they are any less of a car company than Mercedes.

Sure, they cater to the low end. But, their designs aren't off the shelf (or aliexpress), they have a network of showrooms and shops, and most importantly there primary business is the selling of bicycles.

I've a friend with an electric Specialized, and while his bike looks cooler my Rad is faster, half the price, with much better millage, and I can still hang it from the wall in my apt.

One thing I've noticed is that pretty much every established bike company is placing the motor on the pedal crank, whereas Rad uses a much bigger (750w in my case) in-wheel hub motor. The acceleration with a hub motor is so much better and doesn't depend on what gear I'm in.

What do you mean about hanging on the wall? One of the things you are getting for your $5k from Specialized is light weight. They have ebikes down to 34 pounds, about half what a radrunner weighs.

Yes, the Specialized is much lighter. I mention still being able to hang the bike because that's the situation where I notice the extra weight the most. If I couldn't, it would have been a deal breaker for me.

mid-drives are usually a higher-end option for more serious recreational riding where predictability and responsiveness is more important than raw acceleration or long range. Basically the goal of the mid-drive is to make you feel like you are riding an analog bike but as a much more fit rider. Sending the power from the bottom bracket helps to keep you and the motor in sync, balances the weight distribution, keep unsprung/rotating weight low, etc. and the small battery keeps the bike light and maneuverable.

> The acceleration with a hub motor is so much better and doesn't depend on what gear I'm in.

I have a 750 watt radbike and I always find this a little bit bothersome in that I end up in situations where I feel like I'm being dragged forward when I don't want to be because my cadence got just a little bit too fast and the motor starts dumping power. I end up treating the pedal assist as another set of gearing to manage so it doesn't start giving me too much power when I am pedalling in a low gear. Higher end hub drives and pretty much all mid-drives solve this by using a torque sensor so the motor responds to the wattage you are putting down rather than the cadence.

I'm not a fan of hub motors. I don't like that much "sprung" weight on the wheel.

The one thing they have going for them is true silence.

But bikes are not rocket science. They can be advanced and high tech, but they can also just be ordinary, well built bikes if using good parts. If the parts are good then the bike is good, the brand matters less for a bike than say for a car.

Well, I just think a real bike company probably has real bike engineers on the staff already and maybe real engineering experience and resources like FEA models and so forth. These new companies make a lot of mistakes, like Yuba with their forks sheering off, and like Rad with their custom, not-available-anywhere tire size. I feel that with a big brand you're going to get a no-surprises bike.

I think what you're going to get from a big brand is a support system for when things go south (ie: a warranty). It used to be that bike shops stocked a few brands of bikes and those brands had a relationship with the shop to provide customer service and a bridge between customer and brand. Less so now after Covid, but it's still a thing.

Bikes are one of those things that are sort of figured out how to make (tho eBikes, less so). You can go to a trade show in east Asia, spec out exactly what you want a run of bikes to be, and they'll do all the hard work for you, and ship you a container full of "your" bikes. Many brands use the same bike manufacturer/factory. Shop for some of them on bikesdirect.com. Many of the "brand" names are just stickers - the companies may have existed as something decades ago, but now live as a name only.

Even a more established brand will send over the cad files of the frame to be built (usually the only really distinguishing thing in most bikes), then spec out the rest of the parts to be put on it. A few visits to the factory from a brand rep/engineer to get details right (welds, layups), then start pumping out orders.

Rad in Seattle for example has a dedicated shop location. I’m not sure what makes it an “actual bike company” vs not but I expect more and more electric first/only brands to emerge over time.

VanMoof makes decent non electric bikes too

Reply on news.ycombinator.com