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Comment by wereallterrrist | Hacker News Reader

> The surveillance dystopia we are racing towards is only criticized if the facial recognition cameras spying on our every move work slightly worse on black people.

Constructing fairly absurd strawmen like this really hurts your ability to convince others.

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I've seen more criticism of facial recognition surveillance on the grounds that it is less accurate for some races, than on the grounds that, if it worked perfectly, it would result in a massive loss of freedom, so this is no strawman:

https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/sciencepolicy/blog/racial-di...

https://theswaddle.com/how-facial-recognition-ai-reinforces-...

https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/how-is-face-rec...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/facial-recognition-systems-raci...

https://www.csis.org/blogs/technology-policy-blog/problem-bi...

https://www.cnet.com/science/why-facial-recognitions-racial-...

https://theconversation.com/ai-technologies-like-police-faci...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/12/19/federal...

https://exposure.org.uk/2021/09/why-facial-recognition-tech-...

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/dec/04/racist-fa...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/09/technology/facial-recogni...

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2021/01/ban-...

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/882683463/the-computer-got-it...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2019/12/19/facial-recogn...

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/07/defun...

But in the interest of accuracy, "only" was hyperbole - there is some criticism on non-discriminatory grounds. It's just overshadowed by concerns on whether the hell we are building will be racist.

Can you post like, only one link, but one that makes a good point that holds up to scrutiny? I'm not feeling in the mood to search through 20 ad-riddled pages to find something backing up your point. It should be your job picking it out.

Those are all examples of stories complaining specifically about facial-recognition working worse for some races. The quantity, and prominence of the institutions spouting them, is the point.

There were also tons of stories decrying internet memes as hate symbols, so "The quantity, and prominence of the institutions spouting them" is not a valid argument.

Which data backs up your point?

I think we're misunderstanding each-other. My point is that prominent institutions object to surveillance mostly on grounds of discrimination (and this is reflected in the masses, such as the comment I replied to). So examples of those institutions doing exactly that absolutely backs up my point.

My evidence isn't perfect - for that, I'd have to collect an unbiased sample of anti-surveillance stories, and categorize them according to which object to surveillance universally, and which mostly object to only discriminatory surveillance. But the impression I got through casual web browsing is that the latter significantly outnumber the former.

> "The quantity, and prominence of the institutions spouting them" is not a valid argument.

It's actually a very solid argument against the charge of having offered a Strawman.

And if the original had said more instead of the hyperbolic take alluding to "its wokeness thats the problem" about it and acting like there arent constantly discussions about it, then i wouldnt have commented.

Lets be heckin' real here too. Because we both know, the same people ignoring racism are the ones usually bootlicking and supporting or denying creeping fascism so...

And yes i can cherry pick articles going back decades warning of surveillance and how tech is driving us towards dystopia. It was my god damn policy debate case 20 yrs ago and its not receded for anyone actually at the table.

But hey, unexamined biases could be an alt name for this site.

Seriously, if you take discussions of surveillance and then derail the conversation to discuss folks discussing race and tech, how do you not realize youre literally self-actualizing what youre whining about? Da fuq was the point of this derailement other than yet another place for certain folks to yet again subtley whine about woke-ism? Eh?

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