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Comment by skorpeon87 | Hacker News Reader

> multiple (as-claimed-on-the-internet) soldiers complain about cop-malfeasance with respect to the situations in which gunfire is allowed to occur.

Soldiers tooting their own horns; this self-aggrandizement is not to be taken seriously. There is evidence that police with military backgrounds are more likely to be involved in shootings. Police who are combat veterans are even more likely to be involved in shootings. Soldier training does not make good police.

https://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/article/41/3/e245/511435...

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>>They opine that if cops were trained like they were

>There is evidence that police with military backgrounds are more likely to be involved in shootings.

Ah, but that's not the claim being made. You've quite adroitly shown proof that former soldiers make shooty LEOs. I'm relating that soldiers suggest that if all cops were trained as soldiers were with respect to not firing their weapons until some situational conditions were met, shootings would fall.

I'd imagine that the sort of soldier who comes home and seeks out the experience of being a cop, immersed in "killology" [0] as they are (a philosophy that suggests firing your weapons), would indeed become the sort of cop to wind up being involved in a shooting.

...and I'm aware that "killology"'s founder and chief proselytizer is a former soldier. Note, however, that he does not advise cops that they must be strictly bound by any RoE before being willing to fire their weapons; he advises quite the opposite.

[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/11/police-trai...

There is simply no evidence that American military training would produce better police than extant American police. Nothing other than the self-aggrandizing claims of people who claim to be veterans on the internet. Claims that usually go unchallenged, and repeated uncritically (as above), because this country has a culture of soldier worship.

Besides the evidence to the contrary which I have already posted, I think you need to be more skeptical of the claims American soldiers make about their conduct in Iraq and Afghanistan. Talk about rules of engagement is cheap, what matters is the actual execution of those rules. American soldiers were made to behave as police in those countries, and in neither case were they good at it.

American police are bad enough already, the last thing they need is even more military training.

>Besides the evidence to the contrary

You haven't presented evidence to the contrary, you've presented evidence that former soldiers make shooty LEOs. You should re-read the above comment chain, regarding what's being claimed and why, or admit that you're not here to argue a point but grind an axe. Sure, I have no evidence that training cops like soldiers regarding not firing their weapons until some situational conditions were met would reduce shootings, and I'm neither a cop, a soldier, nor an American. That said, there certainly seems to be evidence that training cops to view civilians as enemy combatants, and to be quick to shoot them, encourages cops to shoot people. I mean, it's called "killology" (I just can't get over that). It seems to me that if cops were trained to not fire their weapons until some situational conditions were met, it might discourage cops from shooting people. Maybe I'm being ridiculous!

"RoE, or specific claims about the implementation and efficacy of RoE, is/are bullshit" is a different point, which I'm totally willing to concede. Again, maybe I'm being ridiculous, but I figure reality of American policing is that it'd be easier to hoodwink cops into something approaching military discipline than, like, de-escalation training, actually barring crazies from the profession rather than allowing them to get jobs a few counties over, and handing back the Pentagon-surplus APCs.

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