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Comment by bombcar | Hacker News Reader

Isn't the key the 350° F for 60 minutes afterwards?

Doesn't an internal temperature of 160° F kill everything except some weird toxins?

I suspect that most meat left overnight at room temperature and then cooked "well done" would be perfectly fine.

The thing that does the damage are the toxins the bacteria produce, not usually the bacteria themselves. If you leave the food in the danger zone, the bacteria colonies multiply wildly, producing whatever metabolic products the entire time. Even if you then cook the food and kill the bacteria colony, it won't necessarily denature or destroy the toxin. The seems like the key part of the recipe to me is actually the antibacterial properties of the marinade!

It seems that the marinade goes on after the overnight drying though. That puzzled me since the bacteria would be free to reproduce.

What bacteria? The skin is treated with boiling water prior to drying.

This is actually backwards for botulinum. Boiling denatures the toxin, but doesn't kill the critter; you need to use a higher temperature, e.g. that produced by pressure cooking / canning. So I'd be curious what bacteria are being referred to.

Here's[1] a resource discussing some sources. It mentions Staphylococcus aureus, Bacillus cereus, E. coli as some common examples.

[1]https://www.foodsafety.ca/blog/what-are-bacterial-toxins

> Doesn't an internal temperature of 160° F kill everything except some weird toxins?

It's worth noting that food safety is not limited to living micro-organisms but includes everything from physical objects (choking on a chicken bone) to the bi-products of micro-organisms (such as alcohol or the toxin that causes botulism). Although bacteria produces the botulism toxin, the toxin itself can't be rid of afterwards through temperature.

In the case of botulism toxin, it's actually the opposite. The spores are extremely resistant to temperature, but the toxin can be destroyed by boiling at normal temp/pressure until all parts have been fully exposed to those temps. Other toxins are still an issue though, and many are heat resistant, so not a good idea to eat potentially contaminated foods.

Botulinum toxin is even less heat resistant than that. Five minutes at 185 F will take care of it. Though boiling would certainly get the job done.

Ah thanks! It's been a few years since I took a food handling safety course and I remembered Clostridium botulinum being called out as something that "heat won't kill" but you're right, it's the spores, not the toxin itself.

But yeah, as you also pointed out, bi-products that can cause illness are separate issues from "killing living organisms that cause illness", and heat is not always the magic solution. Heavy metal poisoning is another example of something that heat will not take care of.

Aminita "death cap" mushrooms are one substance that I know of that remains toxic after exposure to high heat over time.

"Amatoxins cannot be destroyed by any conventional cooking method, including boiling or baking. Freezing or drying the mushrooms also fails to remove any amount of amatoxin..."

https://slate.com/technology/2014/02/most-dangerous-mushroom...

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