Comment by EL_Loco | Hacker News Reader

Comment by EL_Loco | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

No, in my latin american country it really is the men who need much more civilizing. I'm done with feeling guilt or fear of being called euro-centric or colonialist, especially when my country ranks fifth in violent homicides against women, in the world (source: UN's ACNUDH). The other countries? Three of them are also in South America (Colombia, El Salvador, Guatemala). In Brazil a woman is murdered every 6 hours, 81% of the time by their partners or ex-partners. I won't even list the number of rape cases each year. I have a daughter and I have a wife, and I have two sisters, and I grew up here, I know my own culture, I talk to other men every single day. If you live in Europe or the US, they don't view women the same way you do. And yes, Europe's views on women and on equality is objectively better than ours. Ask 1,000 women here. Ask 10,000. Cultures are not all equal, not equally 'good'. Some aspects of my culture I love. Others, not so much. That's how it is, actually, not some 'every aspect of every culture has equal merit and should never be criticized' fairy tale. I'm very sorry for the readers for sounding so harsh, I really am. But, like I said, I have a daughter and a wife. My wife is scared or at least on high alert any time she is alone. I will criticize this society and this machismo culture until the day my daughter grows up and doesn't have to feel this way. Again, really sorry for the harsh tone, I guess I'm venting more than anything.

These reactions are primarily a kneejerk because frankly, Western mentality is much too eager to present their methods as 'the cure', presenting women primarily as victims and men primarily as perpetrators, without ever introspecting on the damage they do with their supposed methods.

Your reaction is almost synonymous to this, mainly showing fear women have, statistics for women, etc. Regardless if perpetrators are primarily men, men tend to be victims far more often than women, and far more often than they are perpetrators. For almost every country. Yet the narrative never reveals this, and goes as far as to make it sound like men are predominantly perpetrators (which is a vastly different statement than 'perpetrators are predominantly men').

Even writers who recognize this will quickly dismiss any notion that the West is introducing other problems through the methods used. That statement of 'men need much more civilizing'? That happened, and now boys are walking around thinking they are the problem before they even had a chance to prove themselves while girls are told they can do everything, even get way with (sometimes literal) murder. Western media is arrogant enough to denounce counterculture to boot.

Whether that be better than what is the current state in LA is irrelevant to those preoccupied with looking at the West alone. Doubly so since the situation is LA is generally irrelevant to them and won't ever affect them directly.

> Regardless if perpetrators are primarily men, men tend to be victims far more often than women

But not for the same things

I don’t see the point of saying “men get killed too” - the point is to stop the killing

> and now boys are walking around thinking they are the problem before they even had a chance to prove themselves while girls are told they can do everything, even get way with (sometimes literal) murder

Trying to give you the HN comment benefit of the doubt but that is a very broad generalization that can’t possibly apply to most boys or girls - sounds like BS to me

>But not for the same things

The man subject in the article is a self-proclaimed victim of toxic masculinity. He didn't die per-se but it doesn't take mental gymnastics to understand that many young men imprisoned for never being taught how to be civilized are as much victims of their circumstance as they are guilty for their behaviors wrought from it.

I think it was Bell Hooks who talked a lot about this, how men are also victims of patriarchy in general, and how overlooking this truth retards the healing progress

Sure it’s not easy to say we act in complete isolation and clear thought - but these type of arguments have sooo many wrinkles to them (nature/nurture/opportunity) that it ends up coming down to free will, etc

At the core of a violent act an individual acts in a way that harms another individual - be it theft, rape or murder. Could be heat of the moment, or cold blooded action. Either way someone gets hurt

In addition to enforcing consequences we should identify the causes and work to continue civilizing individuals

Same here. The statement above comes from my mom, who grew up in Bangladesh in the 1950s and 1960. British colonial influence, and the desire for elite Bangladeshis to be more like the British, was why she was one of the tiny fraction of women who graduated college and had a professional career. She doesn’t feel any need to frame that in politically correct terms.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com