TSA's facial recognition, being used at 16 airports, may go nationwide next year
businessinsider.com
businessinsider.com
I’m an old grumpy man and I’ve got time on my hands. Some of y’all should join me.
Myself personally, I’d rather not take my laptop(s), iPad, keyboard, mouse, etc out of my carry on, take my shoes off and belt and wait in a longer line. For what purpose?
If Google can recognize different images of you based on one image on file, why do you think the government can’t?
What do you think you are accomplishing? They also have a record of every flight you take.
We could also farm humans to harvest their organs, the technology is here, imagine how many lives we'd save !
Every time you pass a police car, they can scan license plates programmatically and if they stop you, they have your ID on file that they can pull up. In most states, your driver’s license is a RealID license approved by the federal government. You are protecting yourself against nothing by not using PreCheck.
They can track you via your cellphone using m records that they already get from the carriers.
You’ve given up your privacy with the TSA the minute you walked into an airport.
You should feel free to accept whatever comes along, if that's what works for you; but some of us clearly believe that while some is bad, more is even worse, and it is therefore worthwhile to resist.
There are already traffic cams that scan your license plate and are used to track you every time you drive.
There is no expansion
You accomplish nothing by not giving the government your photo again that they already have from both your driver’s license and passport.
They can track you when you drive, when you fly, by your cell phone.
I would say, of course there is an expansion, or they would not bother to pay for the new technology. Think of Jevons' paradox: if the TSA can use some new technology to scan people more efficiently, it doesn't really matter what they say their intentions are; they will, inevitably, use that technology to scan more people, in more places, more of the time. That is the expansion; let's stop it before it starts, eh?
In the places they have facial recognition, I stand in front of a camera and I don’t have to fumble with my ID or my phone with a boarding pass.
Even if you don’t have TSA PreCheck, you still have to give your government issued ID with your picture to the TSA Agent and even before then if you have checked luggage, to the person checking your luggage. Your picture is in the system in so many places now.
> if the TSA can use some new technology to scan people more efficiently, it doesn't really matter what they say their intentions are; they will, inevitably, use that technology to scan more people, in more places, more of the time. That is the expansion; let's stop it before it starts, eh?
Where is the TSA going to scan people outside of the airport? The facial recognition technology they use required you to be right in front of a camera. The government agencies that you need to worry about - FBI, Homeland security, the local police already have much better surveillance/facial recognition technology and access to a much larger database of everyone’s picture.
You’re taking everything out of your carry on, taking your belt off and only making life harder for yourself.
The only difference with airports that don’t use facisk recognition through TSA Precheck is that they make you scan your drivers license and your ticket instead of just scan your face.
For reference in 2022 alone, I’ve flown out of SEA, DAL, SFO, LAX, ATL (my home airport), BNA (3x), CHS, CLT, MCO (2x), CUN, and I have one more flight by the end of the year through MIA. Facial recognition is one less thing I have to worry about fumbling for when I go through an airport.
That’s not to mention my not having to take out all of my electronic gear (2 laptops, iPad, portable monitor, keyboard, mouse, battery pack, etc.
I'm doing more than just that! I refuse to get pre-check. I bring a paper boarding pass. I neglect to remove liquids and cosmetics from my luggage, so that my bag sometimes has to be hand-inspected and/or run through the scanner twice. I opt out of the backscatter/mill-wave scanner - every time! - so that a TSA employee has to pat me down in person, where I can look them in the eye; whenever feasible, I wear a kilt.
> and only making life harder for yourself.
Of course. Such is the price of civil disobedience. What other leverage do I have against the TSA?
You're looking at this individually, and that's fine - do whatever works for you! But I don't care that much about my personal convenience; I'm trying to push back against the invasive, unnecessary, unjust nuisance the TSA imposes against all of us, and I am doing that through malicious compliance (or quasi-compliance!) with their useless rules.
Successful civil disobedience inconvenience other people enough and those in power to convince them to change. The only thing you’re doing is convince more people to pay to not deal with it.
The TSA doesn’t care if the line gets backed up.
When that line gets too long for TSA PreCheck. We get Clear.
I mentioned in thd previous post that this year alone as part of my normal life I flew six times for business and 4 times for personal reasons.
Now, my wife and I are doing the digital nomad thing and between personal and business, I’ll be on at least 30 one way flights within the next year.
a) they look me in the eye while they do it
b) the government doesn't get a series of images that they can keep forever
Passport cards are actually awesome if you don't have one, doubly so if you don't have a "RealID". You can use them to fly and they don't even list your address.
The point is non-compliance to inject latency and delays.
Planes will still take off on time and more people will miss flights.
[1] https://www.gesichtserkennung-stoppen.ch/news/grosse-erfolge in German
As long as the public doesn't instruct its representatives to set red lines on certain topics, even against foreigners, you can't naively expect the administration to not choose the less expensive and more powerful tools, no matter the consequences.
The TSA can already put you on a “no fly list” and detect when you board a commercial airline regardless of whether you give them your photo ID. Do you think they are unable to get your picture from your passport or your RealID enabled driver’s license?
In other words, the only way to get around the TSA is not to fly. The only way to get around the government not being able to use facial recognition is not to have a driver’s license or a passport.
What’s the threat model you believe you are protecting yourself from by having just one part of the federal government not having your photo ID to do facial recognition?
Not especially, no.
> What can the TSA do with your face that every other part of the government can’t do?
I don't know, but I'm sure we'll all be reading about whatever they come up with ten years from now, when the scandal breaks and someone sues them over it.
Your argument appears to be, "the TSA already has the power to abuse you, so you should just give them whatever they want, whenever they want it". But why? What do I have to gain by cooperating with them? Of course I will give them nothing more than I am forced to.
Why do you keep talking about photo IDs? I am talking about facial scanners, as discussed in this article.
Why are you trying to make a distinction between the TSA having access to your photo and facial scanning? It’s not like they are taking a 3D scan of your face like an iPhone does. They are using a photo on file and matching it to a picture they take. They or any other part of the government can already do that.
You lose no privacy that you haven’t already lost to the government once you applied for a drivers license or a passport. The government is already tracking you every time you get on a plane and they already have a system in place that as soon as you check in, your information is compared to a no fly list.
The second you walk into an airport, you are under the auspices of the TSA. They can scan you, put bomb detecting liquids on your hand, take you into a room for a more thorough pat down and keep you from flying period.
If you don’t know the advantage of TSA Precheck, you obviously either don’t fly a lot or don’t fly out of major airports.
Now they have two photos. Next time I fly, they will have three. Soon they have lots more. Why would I want this?
> It’s not like they are taking a 3D scan of your face like an iPhone does.
Not today, maybe, but I'm sure they'll be trying to roll that out next year, if they think they can get away with it.
> The government is already tracking you
Well of course they are. Is that supposed to make me feel better? I will continue to resist, at every new step, even though I will probably lose; at least I'll make them work for it, as best I can.
> If you don’t know the advantage of TSA Precheck, you obviously either don’t fly a lot or don’t fly out of major airports.
I don't want any such advantages, and I have no interest in making the TSA's job any easier. I am willing to spend the time it takes.
Have you not used Google photos? How many photos do you think they need to make a positive match? If you have a driver’s license and a passport, they already have two photos of you.
How are you making the TSA’s job harder? As soon as you check in at the airport, they already no who you are, what time you checked in, your final destination, how many bags you checked in etc. they can open your checked luggage, go through it erc.
They have an even better idea of what you are carrying on board the plane when you don’t have TSA Precheck because you have to take everything electronic out of your bag and they even know if you have funny looking feet since you had to take your shoes off.
The only person’s life you are making harder is your own.