Samsung’s Android app-signing key has leaked, is being used to sign malware
arstechnica.com
arstechnica.com
"some of the compromised keys: Samsung, LG, and Mediatek are the heavy hitters on the list of leaked keys, along with some smaller OEMs like Revoview and Szroco, which makes Walmart's Onn tablets."
That Sony Google TV? MediaTek.
Google Chromecast? MediaTek.
Blu-ray Player? MediaTek.
Random IoT device? Likely MediaTek.
They’ve known about it since 2016!?!
The app-signing key can't be changed without just creating a new app, and creating a new app means you users won't be able to upgrade - they have to manually uninstall, go to the app store, and install the new one.
It's not just an app store thing, I think I remember Android itself verifies that the upgrades have the same key as the old version.
https://source.android.com/docs/security/features/apksigning...
It's much more likely that an employee's account was compromised and then used to sign malicious APKs, or something similar. Once Samsung realized, they could get the logs of every APK signed with the HSM and then revoke those certificates individually through a software update. Not really sure if they actually did that or not, but either way the key doesn't necessarily need to be replaced.
Android doesn't really do revoking certificates in this way. The only way to fix a leak of a system key is to generate a new key and use replace the entire system image.
I hope you're right that this is merely a remote signing account being compromised, because I don't see Samsung building six years of new system images.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33823946
An important comment from the original story:
> OEMs have mitigated the issues above in previous updates. A new security update from Android is not required to mitigate these issues. Ensuring your device is running the latest version of Android is a general best security practice for users.
Though the ars story says Samsung is signing their first party apps with it still. So who knows.
Not as good as an iPhone (5-6 years), but it's improving.
On top of this, since Android 10 (2019), some security and feature updates come directly from Google (delivered via the app store) and continue after the brand stops supporting the device.
These security updates Apple, Samsung, etc, release years after the phone reaches end-of-life are a bit misleading. The update for the iPhone 5S fixed an exploit on Webkit, but everything else remains unpatched. Same with the update Samsung released for the Galaxy S7 (released before they had a 5 year support policy)... it fixed a GPS bug. That's it.
So while these updates are better than nothing, it's important to understand that the device is not up-to-date or secure.
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[0] The 50-100 dollars device sold in low income markets won't have the same level of long term support as $500+ devices. We can't compare them to Apple here as Apple doesn't compete in that market.
You really can't compare full OS updates AND security updates to years where you just got security updates.
Above you mentioned that the 5S received a security update in August. According to the changelog, all they fixed was an exploit on Webkit (essentially the browser). They didn't even update Webkit/Safari to the latest version (it doesn't work on iOS 12).
Do you know how Android would handle that security update? A simple app update via the Play Store, no restart required. Someone running Android 7, which was released 2 years before iOS 12, is using the latest version of Webview/Chrome (108)... in this regard, Android is actually better than iOS.
There's a big difference between iOS and Android here. On iOS, things like Safari, Photos, Camera, Mail, etc, are part of the system and fixes/new features are presented as part of an updated OS. On Android these things are updated individually via the store and, if applying the same thinking as Apple, receive many "major updates" and many "security updates" every year.
Another point to consider when comparing updates is that since Android 10 (2019) different parts of the system get updates directly from Google ( see: https://blog.esper.io/what-is-project-mainline/ ). A security update for WiFi/Bluetooth, for example, may not need a system update from the OEM.
Android's fragmentation problem forced Google to come up with other ways to update Android. Even for features, many (eg: the alternative to airdrop, a feature to detect/warn about earthquakes, covid app support, etc) are backported to outdated devices without Samsung, etc, releasing system updates.
I don't deny that Android is messier behind the scenes than iOS or am even saying that you should buy an Android device... but it's not as bad as you seem to think.
When I think about long term support, I'm thinking about the kind of support Windows, Linux LTS, etc, provide. When Apple, Samsung, etc, release the type of updates you mention, they're just fixing one of the many security problems the device has.
It's like fixing the lock on a door of a building full of broken windows and call it secure. I guess it's better than nothing, but it's not proper maintenance.
How do you know?
On a side note, if we want to use this a proof of good long term support, then Android is even better. Phones running Android 7 (2016) are using the latest Chrome/Webview version (108). The difference is that updates are delivered via the Play Store and not as system updates.
You're claiming that the security issue detailed in the article will be fixed through the Play Store, for devices no longer receiving updates from the device maker?
There are advantages to the iOS model of six years of full support followed by security updates for many years later, especially when an actively exploited issue is discovered.
Yes. The Webkit equivalent (Webview) is updated via the Play Store ( https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and... ). A bug on Webview would be fixed with an app update, which doesn't even require a restart. Makes sense if we think about it... we don't need a system update to update Chrome/Firefox/Edge/Safari on our computer.
On iOS, a fix or new features on the email, photos, phone, messages, etc, apps are presented as a security/new OS update. On Android, you get an app update.
It's not only apps, they can also update system parts. For example, if there's an issue with the "module" that deals with media, wifi/bluetooth, etc, Google can issue an update and the phone receives it via the Play Store. This article (scroll down) has a list of all modules that can be updated: https://blog.esper.io/what-is-project-mainline/ . I don't know if it's from Google or the different SoC makers, but they can also update things like GPU drivers on newer devices (the user obviously doesn't see any of this).
And Google can backport features without updates from the brand. For example, during the pandemic, Apple and Google added support for Covid apps... in Google's case, they released an update via the store and every phone going back to Android 6 (2015) got it. That's also how they added support for earthquake detection/warnings, nearby share (similar to airdrop), etc.
> There are advantages to the iOS model of six years of full support followed by security updates for many years later, especially when an actively exploited issue is discovered.
Long term support is good and Apple is ahead here offering 5 or 6 major updates. However, it's important to understand what these "security updates" bring.
The iPhone 5s isn't as secure as the iPhone 14 because iOS 12 isn't supported any more. This security update, which was essentially a browser update, reminds me of Microsoft releasing a patch for EOL Windows XP or Win 7 because some malware was taking computers left and right. They fixed one problem, but many remain and you can't consider XP to be safe.
I have used iPhones before (iPhone 5) and am aware of the benefits of Apple's system updates, but we're screwed when those 5 or 6 major updates end. Your browser might get a patch like this, but it's still outdated and doesn't support new web features. On Android, because they are detached from the system, the device maker could be out of business and your 6 year old device running an old Android build will have the latest Chrome, photo gallery, email, etc.
TFA isn't about web browsers. It's about the security keys for multiple vendors leaking to the public.
>Łukasz Siewierski, a member of Google's Android Security Team, has a post on the Android Partner Vulnerability Initiative (AVPI) issue tracker detailing leaked platform certificate keys that are actively being used to sign malware. The post is just a list of the keys, but running each one through APKMirror or Google's VirusTotal site will put names to some of the compromised keys: Samsung, LG, and Mediatek are the heavy hitters on the list of leaked keys, along with some smaller OEMs like Revoview and Szroco, which makes Walmart's Onn tablets.
These companies somehow had their signing keys leaked to outsiders, and now you can't trust that apps that claim to be from these companies are really from them. To make matters worse, the "platform certificate keys" that they lost have some serious permissions.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/12/samsungs-android-app...
Are you claiming that the Play Store will push an update to fix this issue on unsupported devices?
You're not impressing me at all here.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/619788/average-smartphon....
If, on average, people are replacing their phone within three years, 5 years or more of support is largely marketing.
And ironically, I highly doubt the majority of the users here on HN use their devices through their EOL. They just like the idea, philosophically.
I'm guessing there's a generational aspect to this as well, and if the devices are the person's only compute device. The assumption on my part is that the younger users are the ones to upgrade quickly as it is upgrading their only compute device. For someone like me, I'll always prefer a desktop/laptop to use for the sheer usability aspect. I just hate the small screen and hunched over posture of using a phablet-like device. That's me and my opinion, and we all like different things.
Android has to play catch up because of the way it works and because OEMs don't control everything. Apple develops their own SoC, while most Android OEMs have to use a SoC from Qualcomm or Mediatek... which also need to support new Android versions. All this is improving... slowly. In other areas it has been better than iOS for years (eg: apps like the browser receive updates via the app store even after end-of-life, same with some Android features).
Everything has trade-offs. A $500 Windows laptop gets better support than my $3500 Macbook Pro, and we've had laptops for a long, long time. Still, I own a Mac. I also use Android because it lets me do more than iOS.
Google has recently managed to strike some better deals with Qualcomm to get updates for 5 years for the latest crop of Pixel devices. I agree it's still not as good as Apple, but that's just how market forces work, and shows you who has the most leverage.
I don't think anyone is trying to "impress" anyone; merely stating the facts as they are.
The last 2 generations of Pixels use Google's own SoC (developed with Samsung?) called Tensor[0].
Google deserves some criticism here. The main force behind Android is now behind Apple and other Android brands. Samsung uses a mix of Qualcomm and Exynos, and their flagships get 4 major Android updates. OnePlus, which relies on Qualcomm and Mediatek, will do the same for "selected devices"[1]. A Pixel 7 only gets 3 major updates... at least the phone receives security updates for 5 years, but they need to improve.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Tensor [1] https://www.xda-developers.com/oneplus-four-platform-updates...
source: have owned a samsung and took notice of when the update came
I received the Android 13 update in November and less than two weeks later another security update. This indicates to me that they roll out updates as fast as possible. Normally I get the monthly security update in the first half of the month.
EDIT: I should probably mention that I usually only buy Samsung's flagships but the midrange device are getting the same treatment AFAIK.
[1] https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/02/22/samsung-solidifies-...
I really don't have that kind of money to just drop on a phone that will inevitably fall from my pocket and break because it's too damn big. My phones cost less than 200€, and since they aren't samsung they get timely updates.
Extremely cheap brands don't tend to do updates much, especially Android version updates.
Mid-range phones land somewhere in the middle; some have budget hardware with decent support, but other brands get good hardware for dirt cheap in exchange of basically no software support after buying the phone. The latter is great if you're planning on using custom ROMs to extend the life time of your dirt cheap hardware, but quite terrible for people who are used to buying phones four times the price and expecting the same level of support, thinking they just scored a good deal.
I bought a Galaxy A33 the other day for my mother. It came full of crapware. All kinds of Samsung this-or-the-other. Some of the apps can be disabled, but not all. Like parts of Bixby (= Samsung's assistant? no idea) can be disabled if you click through a warning, but others cannot.
There is also a bunch of 3rd party crap pre-installed, like MS Onedrive, Facebook, Tiktok.
And it pushes hard to use Onedrive instead of google drive.
There's also a separate, Samsung store, and some functions seem to require a Samsung account.
The latest Samsung device i have is tab s8 from this year and the software i would call bloat was all the Google stuff like Youtube, Youtube music, Duo, Chrome, Google search. And worst of all the Google assistant that you have to go to multiple places to disable.
If you don't want it the only option is a non android os such as oxygen.
To add injury Bixby hijacks a physical button and Samsung Pay a swipe direction.
I can dream, but I would love to know what this "somehow" is. Such a leak is a major security threat to a sizeable portion of phone users. Disclaiming what happened and what you are doing about it would be good.
Generally speaking I don't have much trust in anything a large company is building. In this case, this is very likely they haven't used an HSM for something at the root of the security for stuff like Samsung Pay... This is a major smell to me.
Multiple independent business units developing apps and needing to share the same signing key. Probably contracting out development to other firms.
Neither Google or Apple offer robust ways to effectively delegate App develop while retaining secrets needed to publish an App. So you effectively need a FTE managing and supporting all of these groups.
Anyone can do a ELI5 on the app signing key replacement difficulty?
It isn't covered in the article and seems too high level for a layman like me.
On Android, an updated app is validated by the system to be signed by the same signing key hash as was used previously.
The most recent (v3, IIRC) apk signing scheme allows you to update an APK and sign it with the old key, and committing a future new signing key, which permits re-keying an app.
To use this, I believe you need to ship a platform (operating system) update, as the underlying apps are signed using old APK signing schemes.
These OEMs are likely not always shipping the latest OS version, but could look to techniques used in the custom firmware world, where there are tools to allow reflashing the OS without losing app data when changing system signing key.
It requires engineering effort for already released devices though, so I suspect we will see very little action - as usual, the eyes are on the future products, not on previously released products.
I assume Google play protect will be used to carefully patrol and detect apps on devices signed by the leaked keys, but this isn't hugely helpful for anyone concerned about "zeroday" style targeted attacks against them.
Well then they better do some f..ing testing. They're only one of the biggest tech companies in existence. Making phones isn't trivial either!
The stuff around it is where the complexity lies: making sure you get updates and have infrastructure to distribute these to customers, that you apply for and get certifications from regulatory agencies and, in the US, carriers, deal with e-waste and warranty regulatory requirements (which is a pain in the EU), establish a supply chain for spare parts...
I’ve avoided Samsung anything for years because of their total disregard for security and total contempt towards their users.
The thing is, if you live in the west then all the other major Android brands aren't better at all. There just are no good options anymore. HTC went bust, OnePlus turned to shit, LG threw in the towel, Sony's SW updates cycle is unimpressive for how expensive they are, Google Pixels are buggy as hell and not available in every country, and Motorola, Nokia and Blackberry are basically rebadged Chinese OEM designs. This lack of good options explains why Android lost so much market share to iOS in the last years.
Excluding Chinese phone makers, Samsung is pretty much the only big player in town from a western aligned nation, that has its shit mostly together as of present, promising 5 years of updates, having service and distribution centers in most countries around the world and a wide portfolio covering all price brackets.
For example, if you're in the market for a new relatively affordable mid-range ~300 Euro phone, then Samsung is pretty much your safest bet in the Android space.
Sure, there are better option like Fairphone but those are far away from being globally mainstream.
That hasn't been my experience.
Google has no quality consistency both with SW and HW, it's all hit and miss with their Pixel range. Some turned out great, some were abasically e-waste.
IMHO they peaked with the Nexus 5 and then went downhill after that. Then current Pixel 7 seems to be an exception.
Like what?
1. GPS didn't work in the background for me. A few OS updates and some Waze updates later it seems I do get turn-by-turn directions.
2. GPU artefacts in Minecraft and Firefox. A few OS, Minecraft and Firefox updates later and it all "just works".
3. Fingerprint sensor works well except when you need it. Murphy's law for sure.
4. I'm in a low signal area and it seems to be unable to receive calls sometimes. I've had people tell me they called and my phone just didn't ring (it's not do not disturb).
Overall is a decent phone but it was a struggle for the high price it had.
My 5G/LTE performance definitely seems much worst than the Pixel 3a XL I had previously.
That aside, Samsung’s shittiness extends far beyond smartphones. Their TVs are a disaster, their appliances fail just outside warranty, their wearable and speakers are spyware just like the rest of their products… the only thing from them not on my shitlist are semis or components like ram because there isn’t much that can go wrong on this kind of commodity product.
I tried to get my mom a 2020 SE since that's the phone my employer gave me and she hated the tiny, dim, low resolution display but she loves her Samsung A52 though, with its big and bright OLED display while being cheaper than the SE. Also battery life is longer on her A52 than on my work SE.
Different people have different requirements for a smartphone that go beyond the brand and reputation (display size, brightness, USB-C, etc). iPhone SE is not a one-size fits all solution for everyone.
They also pioneered the work container before Google started offering this as part of AOSP under the name 'Work Profile'. A feature which is really nice for privacy, separating a user's personal activity from their work activity.
And they're really good at rolling out security patches. Even before apps like SnoopSnitch drew attention to Android OEMs playing loose and fast with patch levels and missing out patches, Samsung was one of the most complete in this area. https://9to5google.com/2018/04/12/android-security-update-mi...
I was a mobile MDM admin of a huge fleet until last year. No commercial involvement with the vendors though because in our company each country picks their own models but technical management is global.
I do have complaints about Samsung like the huge amount of crapware they ship. Upday, facebook, etc. And their ads in their apps. And it's bugging the users to sign up for a personal onedrive account even when they're already signed in to a corporate one :(
But on security I consider them quite good for an Android vendor.
(Do we expect Samsung better protects its TV keys, than its smartphone keys?)
These sorts of consumer-device companies often take other unwise security-through-obscurity, or only "folk-secure", shortcuts elsewhere – rather than defense in depth.
For example, thinking their app-signing keys secure, maybe they used something other than SSL, or SSL in some no-certificate-validation-mode.
It happens more than it should, with giant consumer-electronics conglomerates, even!
I think you could phrase that better. Sideloading apps is not an "issue", it's an incredibly important tool that developers can use to audit the behavior of apps.
With the continuing security problems, it is increasingly being proven out that Apple got the app ecosystem right, from the get-go, with their walled garden approach. The benefits of such vastly outweigh the costs to a few tinkerers (and malicious actors) when you're building a product for the average bear.
that is the worst idea I have heard in a long time. what happens to developers, like me, that cannot afford a "paid developer account"? and whats to stop Google (or Apple) from raising the fee so high that it prices out important people from the process?
I think this is confusingly phrased and the replies relate to that confusion.
A free Apple developer account allows 'sideloading' for a limited time, currently a week IIRC, and a paid account extends this to a year, which is technically limited but probably not what most people would understand by the phrase.
If you do have a developer account, your device only has to connect to your home WiFi network once a year for your computer to keep the app authorized.