Rage Against the (Smart) Machine – Why I want my TV to be ‘dumb.’ | Hacker News Reader

Rage Against the (Smart) Machine – Why I want my TV to be ‘dumb.’

nationalreview.com

I have a Sceptre TV that I bought a few years ago and couldn't be happier. Sceptre does have Smart TVs using Roku or Google TV, but there are many models such as what I bought that are modern (made within past 3-5 years) and non-smart. Quality isn't anything substantial but its sufficient and not horrible. Hate how bloated proprietary botnet is the norm out of the gate. Most people already have or will just buy their own media centers like game consoles or Fire Sticks anyway. Personally I have a SBC with LibreELEC (Just Enough OS for Kodi).

Sceptre is pretty much the only game in town at this point if you are looking for a regular non-SMART TV.

I hate how these companies have malevolently made it so you don't have any choice about installing what ammounts to sophisticated surveillance devices in your own home.

When I talk about HIPAA protected issues with my family, in my own home, I should not suddenly see ads directly targeting the related condition I was talking about, and yet I do.

Vendors provide "commercial" displays whose only differences are better warranties, more complete serial control and, you guessed it, no ads or SMART features. Some have a web accessible menu, and others you can buy a separate service remote for to program the panel exactly as you need it to function.

In general, there's no reason to network connect your TV, but if you do, and they won't they don't tell you this, you don't have to accept the TOS for the SMART features or data collection. The TV will still work.

You won't necessarily have the choice about not connecting to the internet.

Also, providers have implicitly forced you to agree to ToS to use the device by not returning it and bundling a take it or leave it agreement with the TV.

If you want to watch TV, this is your only option. That's not even getting into the mesh networks, or the obvious expansion of those networks to their trucks.

Non-JS accessible version [1]

[1] - https://archive.ph/Fh4Qc

Rage against shitty websites… I can’t even see the article with all the pop ups, jittering on scroll, etc. I’m sure it’s deep, maybe post it on a “dumb” website so we can read it.

The solution to the author's problem is to pay more for a better device. The solution to your problem is to pay the author so the ads aren't needed.

Cable TV would like a word.

I made my tv semi dumb via a dns whitelist and some firewall rules.

Set up code to do dns forwarding/dropping on a raspberry pi pico for fun and its been working great. Only allows netflix/prime/disney+ and so far no ads.

https://github.com/AdrianCX/pico_hole

I have been thinking about incorporating similar thing for my unbound/nsd stack through client tagging.

How do you maintain the white list of domains for netflix/prime/disney+?

> I have been thinking about incorporating similar thing for my unbound/nsd stack through client tagging

That's a nice idea, ping if you do get it working.

> How do you maintain the white list of domains for netflix/prime/disney+?

You can use any of existing whitelists for domains like this: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/JO2EY/Rules/master/Surge/R...

Domains for me are hardcoded, i recompile to change them (not ideal, i only did it to experiment and it's good enough so it stuck, also not much ram)

If things stop working I look at logs and update.

On other environments you could just present domains in a UI and have user block/allow/permanent block and hide. (that would be fine for me)

Thank you! I am currently using StevenBlack's host file for ad blocking across all DNS clients. The tagging setup is used as a split-horizon DNS; for example, my tiny tiny RSS domain gets resolved to 192.168.1.3 on my LAN and 10.1.2.3 for wireguard VPN clients.

I am using NixOS and consuming my own infrastructure definition, so the config is currently not portable, but I have been thinking about splitting it out into multiple files and publishing it.

I'm not seeing how this would help with these smart devices connecting automatically to mesh networks? (i.e. Amazon sidewalk 900mhz band).

It would not, but I deal with that threat differently - I don't buy such devices.

They won't necessarily disclose those devices have that ability upfront. Look at the Nest thermostat.

Amazon Sidewalk and dirt cheap 4/5g are appearing in many products including TVs - how do you audit yours to ensure it's not simply going over your head?

1. If i start seeing ads I will investigate. So it would be painfully obvious whatever they do.

2. When I buy I check reviews and avoid 4/5g or sidewalk.

3. If bought by mistake - return.

4. If left with no choice then:

- I will buy but not accept monitoring

- add automated gdpr request every month for my data and request to delete after.

- see what they return and figure out how it was captured (ex: kill microphone if audio data), sue if anything illegal

Technical wise, play around:

- custom firmware - if tvs get powerful enough to run full linux distributions then I would be very happy.

- desoldering/reusing 4/5g or sidewalk components on my other projects... (free connectivity on sensors on car/bike etc)

- replace board entirely with a raspberry or similar

In Finland you can't lock the toy into the Happy Meal: the toy has to be sold separately too.

Using analogous logic, the EU could mandate that all audio-visual consumer devices can be sold at two prices:

One price for a machine that is effectively firewalled, and guaranteed not to accept anything from third-party websites OR to phone home (or anywhere it isn't asked to) (except of course when asked to go online to get software updates).

A second (presumably higher) price for infestation with crapware & nagware.

If the former is the default setting (which would be mandated), then the latter becomes inevitable, driven by the business models now in existence.

This regulation might be written to include computers too, which would be awesome.

I am surprised that there isn’t a website with instructions on how to give your television a lobotomy. Snip the leg of a chip, or pull the wire to the antenna, stuff like that. Turn it into a dumb display and do everything using a separate entertainment box.

I'm tired of these "anti smart device" articles. Here's the harsh truth: most people don't care or appreciate Netflix/Disney/whatever being built in. Alternatives exist if you're so inclined.

Unless things have changed since i last researched this, there aren't non-smart hdtvs currently being manufactured.

What you want to buy is commercial signage displays. They're dumb and reliable.

Mind giving a link to these? All I can find is basically normal smart TVs.

I don't think you're mistaken about the big-picture situation, but if you want to focus on models with a bit less "TV DNA" in them, it might be interesting to browse through [1].

[1] https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/digital-signage-moni...

At a glance, those prices are straight-up horrible in comparison to a consumer model. How much revenue is the Smart-we-upload-everything consumer model generating? I would have thought tens-of-dollars at most.

My non-expert impression is that it's mostly a matter of consumer-oriented product lines facing more competitive pressure on price than business-oriented product lines. To put it another way, the consumer product lines don't have ads and spyware because those make a lot of money, but because vendors need to fight tooth-and-claw for every dollar of margin in that market.

When you have less than a handful of companies creating the products there is no effective competitive pressure.

They control future supply which raises or lowers the price at their whim. The feature-set needed to get money from spyware is not mutually exclusive. Its a value, no-cost added to improve profit.

That's all the business people see, and Accurint is more than happy to pay with those government funds to enable historic lookups of your behavior in your private home sans court.

They'll last much longer than the $400 Samsung from Costco

At those prices I could buy the Costco special 2x and might still come out ahead.

Commercial signage displays were a little late to the "smart" revolution (basic RS-232 management notwithstanding), but they absolutely got there. There are simply too many advantages to being able to run an "app" to semi-autonomously display your ad/info campaign without running HDMI cables and splitters/switches everywhere (maybe even by polling a server over Wi-Fi).

My desk here is a bit small to actually use it as a monitor, so I've repurposed mine as a TV with a fire stick.

Has it dawned on anyone to simply not use the so called smart features of a smart TV?

I got a killer deal on my Roku 4K TV that I use exclusively as a monitor. The TV has never been set up on the WiFi, so it cannot access anything nor act as a surveillance device.

While I don't necessarily disagree with the author, my phone now reeks of bengay from just opening this article.

This whole thing just drips "old man yelling at cloud"

That's pretty much the National Review's target audience, so you're not wrong.

I require any TV I might buy to be dumb. If smart is the only option, then I'll just skip a TV altogether.

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