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Comment by kbrackbill | Hacker News Reader

Is it possible to buy a new car these days without the remote/cell connection stuff? Or if not, can it be disabled? My car is 15 years old so I haven't had to think about it yet, but I'm worried about what I'll do when it finally gives up. Maybe just buy another older used one or something.

Alternatively, are there any killer features that make having an always connected car desirable? I understand why car manufacturers would want it for telemetry and updates and such but I'm not sure what the value is for me.

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I use an app to turn on climate control in my car a few minutes before I'm ready to leave, so it's already warmed up in winter, or cooled down in summer, by the time I get in. My last few cars have been electric, so this doesn't involve starting up a noisy engine, and can safely be done if the car's parked in a garage too.

There are many use cases like this that make it nice to remotely signal your car, but many of them shouldn't require a subscription or WAN communication.

Anything you want as an ecosystem involving software that is supposed to last a decade or more requires a subscription to be viable.

Funny how this suddenly became prevalent, when there was actually a time when you could buy software that would last for decades without the need for a subscription.

The only reason this would need a subscription is to pay for the sim.

That software wasn't running on servers 24/7.

I'd argue most modern software doesn't need to either but has hamfisted features that require it for the sole purpose of making you pay for a subscription.

Stuff like Adobe Creative Cloud has some cloud features that lock you into their ecosystem. Not taking them up on it and storing locally is still an option (for now anyway) but you can't choose not to pay for their cloud features if all you need is their editing software.

Back then software wasn’t capable of driving off with your car :)

CD-ROM/DVD-ROM -> digital delivery

That shift enabled this.

Remote start is present on my wife’s 2016 Chevy. Simple RFID built into the fob. No subscription required. I suspect that technology will last another 3 years and longer.

Not as full featured as grandparent comment’s use case (can’t start it in the garage) but it’s like 90% of the way there with a fraction of the complexity.

Ecosystems are stupid. I want open standards and devices that are robust and made to work locally without phoning home and needing a subscription.

Of course that's just a pipe dream, because such systems are not lucrative.

It's also why nobody makes a slick, reliable, modern NVR that supports ONVIF cameras.

Ecosystems are toxic dark pattern garbage.

My last car had a key fob that could do that up to about a half mile away; cell signal irrelevant. It's just a 2-way remote start system. I miss it. The fob even reported the cab temperature.

When I was in school, about 20 years ago, my friend’s dad loved that feature on his (non-electric, obviously) car. But it simply used the key via RF and didn’t require internet or an app.

It makes it a lot harder to have it stolen. Or rather, in light of the OP, it makes it a lot harder to have it stolen and not be able to find it.

Yes but will your local police care?

No, I know from personal experience

My bro had his car stolen with this feature.

The cops waited at the Walmart until the thief got out and had my bro on the phone lock him out remotely.

Car stolen at 6:00, back by noon.

Did the cops actually arrest the thief, or close the case after your bro got his car back?

Arrest and release, but that is expected in Minneapolis.

My new car got stolen earlier this year and the built-in GPS is the reason I got it back.

Police in my case took it super seriously and recovered the car even though it was on private property and the GPS signal was 400 yards off of the actual location.

I called at 10 am and had the car back by 1 pm.

Is it now a dirty title?

Not as far as I know. I didn't file an insurance report and nothing shows up on Carfax about it.

Glad to hear it! Cheers.

In Europe there are many brand new cars that have BT for connecting locally to the smartphones for handsfree calls, but no access to Internet. I love that. We use Waze a lot for navigation, with Android Auto your phone can show the map on the car's display.

Even better, I found that some 2022 model motorcycles have no chip in the key, it is just a dumb key that starts the engine or opens the fuel cap - usually the offroad motorcycles that you don't want to leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere just because the chip is not read correctly.

In America my housemate just bought the cheapest base model Corolla. It has these features and a key without an electronic fob.

It likely still has a chip in that key

As someone who was on the R&D Infotainment team on the US side of one of the big Japanese manufacturers, I had many heated debates with management over these "features," which became a big enough deal for me that it was one of the main reasons I left the company. The executive suite on the American side R&D were always pushing these dubious features for the underlying data underneath. This was masked as "value" for the customer, but it's mostly a smokescreen so that the manufacturer can sell the data on the open market. There is a large Silicon Valley/MBA influence when it comes to data and how to monetize it.

One may or may not be surprised of the philosophies here - the idea is to monetize the vehicle and data every step of the way. The data doesn't belong to the customer even though they bought the car. Given the pervasiveness I saw at this specific company and it's software suppliers, I would assume every supplier and manufacturer for newer model vehicles are doing this now.

I'm a little old-ish school. At this point just give me a bluetooth connection that always works with my phone and I'm good. These newer vehicles are basically just another mobile phone on wheels, riddled with bugs and data collection services. No thanks.

Send navigation instructions from phone, rather than entering address with a rotary knob on the slow IVI in the car.

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