Comment by softfalcon | Hacker News Reader

Comment by softfalcon | Hacker News Reader

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Yeah, some camera menus suck.

I’m a photographer and your comment made me laugh. Everyone in photo circles hates the Sony menus on their cameras because they’re the worst.

Canon, Panasonic, and Fuji have substantially better menu systems that we all far prefer.

I find it funny your opinion has been informed by using the worst the camera sphere has to offer!

That being said, these menus and UIs are aimed at pros who do nothing else but take photos. It’s a coding IDE, not a simple text editor. It’s going to be foreign to the casual user. That is by design.

Also, the computational photography is a nuisance for our work. We want the LEAST edited photo file possible every time.

I understand your lack of interest in editing, it’s a chore that even we have to do, but it’s also one of our power tools. We choose this, it is not a step backwards for us!

It sounds like “professional” photography just isn’t for you!

However, before I start a bunch of arguments, I will say one thing. There is always room for improvement and they could likely do UX/UI analysis to further improve things. Though, from my use, I do find it to be very hardware focused which feels intuitive to me and those in my photo circles. I think it’s the prerequisite of knowing shutter, ISO, and aperture as well as focus pulling concepts. That makes me “know what to look for”.

(Canon user here) This response is very misleading. They're all bad. Other camera manufacturers are not substantially better than Sony in this regard. If Sony is a 1 and smart phones are a 10, the other camera manufacturers fall somewhere between 1 and 3. GPs comment is still spot.

edit: Please indicate when you make edits to your comments. Your comment is now very different to the one I responded to.

I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree.

I know this may sound “misleading” but I’ve only started “real” photography for a year or two and I find the Canon and Panasonic menus quite straightforward.

I like the very hardware focused setup of DSLR/mirror-less cameras.

I would also politely ask you don’t call me “misleading” just because you disagree with my opinion. I’m not in here spreading misinformation to start polarizing discussions. I’m merely sharing my opinion.

You completely changed the comment I responded to, so how can we have a discussion about whether or not your comment was misleading? So no, I'm going to stick with "misleading". And the fact that you changed the comment so drastically without telling anyone makes me think you found something wrong with your original comment too.

And after you're edit, I'm going to add "condescending" to my description as well.

> It sounds like “professional” photography just isn’t for you!

As if the only reason anyone would disagree with you is because they are casuals

> You completely changed the comment I responded to, so how can we have a discussion about whether or not your comment was misleading?

I can understand your frustration. I was looking at other comments and felt I wanted to add further reasons why I feel the lack of usability (as they see it) is by design (which makes the UI good, not bad), and not because of laziness on behalf of camera manufacturers. I can see why you'd think I'm being misleading saying that camera UI's are good, also I still fully believe that a Canon/Pana/Fuji UI is substantially easier to navigate than a Sony one. This is only my personal experience though.

> And after you're edit, I'm going to add "condescending" to my description as well.

> As if the only reason anyone would disagree with you is because they are casuals

I don't mean to say the only reason is because they are casual. I meant to point out that because they want computational photography and also hate editing raws, that using a dedicated camera is unlikely going to be fun for them. If you hate two of the most important parts of a photographers workflow to ensure the creative ability to edit a photo exactly the way you want, then yeah, that likely means you're a "casual".

I can see how "bad UI" and "computational photography + editing RAW" was mixed up a bit though. I could have been clearer as to what specifically I was addressing, my apologies.

To clarify on "casuals" though, I don't think being casual is bad. I'm a casual gamer, a casual driver, a casual cook. That isn't a negative either. It's just the truth, I admit I'm not a pro who dedicates the time necessary in those fields.

When a casual person tells a pro "I hate the parts of your work that are necessary to do your job/hobby properly" and then further target their frustration at a UI that might be confusing to them by design (as its meant for a different type of user) seems like something other folks might find interesting. I see it as a very neat case of user targeting and persona analysis, similar to software.

Canon/Nikon/Fuji/Sony are targeting photographers who want a dedicated OS with cutting edge hardware. If the hardware is good, they'll tolerate a stripped down, minimal camera OS for the sake of speed. It's similar to why you don't often see people driving a Formula 1 car on their daily commute.

Hasselblad and Phase One have very simple and in my opinion, great UIs for their modern cameras.

Something that really frustrated me with my camera purchase was how the hard interface was used to upsell higher priced models. I bought a D3500, the low end of that sensor line, and there's a lot of options I have to change through the menu. Things like ISO or timer delay (I also have to re-set this for every shot), things that typically are accessed through a dedicated or function button. The crux of it is that moving to a more expensive model with those buttons is not a strict upgrade: the camera is larger, heavier, and has worse battery life.

Yeah, price segmenting and protecting higher end models is unfortunately common with most technology companies. It becomes particularly obvious when folks install magic lantern (or similar) on their camera bodies and see what unlocked firmware will make use of on their camera.

I feel you, they definitely are out to make a profit and that definitely affects the value you get for your money (as opposed to what the hardware can actually do).

The latest Sony OS version is a tad better, but with enough practice you can get used to even the Sony menus. But yes.

It's taken a few years but the menus on my Sony mirrorless have grown on me.

Right, but TFA is talking about the compact camera market. I agree with the comment that cameras haven't kept up with the ease of use and convenience of phones in any way.

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