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whiddershins

Actually I was wrong the murder rate is as bad as the late 90s:

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/murd...

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But look at 1993. You're citing a graph and asking to ignore the huge peak.

Crime was worse in the early 90s.

Crime has gone way up recently, so bad that it is similar to 1997. 1998 and 1999 had lower crime than now.

This is at minimum a bad trend, and 1997-level crime is not great.

You're calling the pandemic spike a long term trend. I haven't checked in a while, but last I knew it was already showing signs of reversing.

This says 2021 was lower than 2020: https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-...

This is inane. These claims are obviously false on their face. All you have to do is go outside in NYC and it is obvious crime is up.

Maybe the trend will reverse, but there is zero evidence of this and, again, all one has to do is live here.

I’ve lived in NYC since 1985. I know what it looks and feels like at different crime levels.

This is what I don't like about these discussions, and the attitude of people who share your position in them.

I try to have a discussion about what the numbers are showing, and you essentially tell me you don't care because your intuitive feeling overrides the numbers.

New York had fewer murders in 2020 than it did in 2010.

The national trend shows crime decreasing in 2021. I haven't looked at the New York specific data, or preliminary 2022 numbers, but that is the national trend for 2021.

I'm in San Francisco and I have to say that all of the rhetoric on this topic regarding this city is pretty heavy on bullshit. Your governor just said "we will never become San Francisco", so if that's the yardstick for terrible, I've got to say that New York is probably doing all right. But I haven't visited since 2021 so I cannot say. None of my friends there are telling me about an out of control crime situation.

You keep using bad data. Only look at murder rates. Murder is the only crime that is reliably recorded.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191223/reported-murder-a...

Bad data to you is data that contradicts your intuition. That ain't how it works.

I'll say again: New York had fewer murders in 2020 than it did in 2010.

That’s actually a very good point, and does in fact contradict my intuition.

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