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Comment by thelock85 | Hacker News Reader

Can anyone here provide some ideas of sensible regulation on this issue (or point to someone else talking about it)?

IANAL or even novice on antitrust issues but seems Apple would just find another way to make up the slack if App Store (iOS/Android/other) fees were regulated.

As a good friend of mine likes to say about DNC vs GOP, it's "steak or fish" with Android and iOS (you can choose which is which). They take up too much space for anyone else to fundamentally reimagine and reintroduce an app ecosystem (no disrespect to PWAs and the like). I feel regulation would ultimately hurt developers and consumers more, at least in the medium to long-term, but I'm open to forming a new opinion.

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Government setting prices like that is a terrible idea. The solution to this problem is competition. The only regulation needed are laws that stop Apple from preventing competition. If there were alternative app stores, free market forces will naturally prevent Apple from doing stuff like this. They'll be free to charge whatever they want, but customers and developers will also be free to go with a competitor instead of them.

Sure, Apple and their fanboys are going to say stuff like "it will be bad for privacy" and "Apple needs to control everything to protect us from malware", etc. Pretty much the exact same type of arguments AT&T was making before they got broken up in the ~80s. If that didn't happen, we probably wouldn't have gotten the internet as quickly as we did (or at all). That's a pretty clear example of how monopolies stifle competition, and how breaking them up can be lead to incredible innovation.

Hell, I don't think we even need new laws. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure what Apple is doing is already illegal, since it's so obviously anti-competitive and detrimental to society/the economy. Even investors will probably be better off in the long run if all these tech giants have their monopolies broken up, since the new opportunities in the market will undoubtedly result in new innovations and better investment opportunities.

Also, I need to say this otherwise the conversation will get predictably derailed:

* Apple is bad

* Google is bad too

* Microsoft is bad too

* Amazon is bad too

* Meta is bad too

* <insert tech company here> is bad too

Even forcing competing app stores has problems. It's Apple that will be forced to provide support for those app stores. If someone installs malicious software from one and it bricks their phone they're going to bring it to an Apple store. Even if they have a policy of "competing app stores mean no support" there's still going to be the time wasted determining if another app store was used and the good will lost when customers find they no longer receive support for their broken phone.

Microsoft was taken to court for less than this in the 90s over the browser wars. 1) Apple should be forced to allow side-loaded apps. 2) they should be forced to allow competing marketplaces. 3) they should be forced to allow PWAs to be installed alongside regular apps. 4) they should be forced to allow alternative web engines (inc. Chrome, Edge, Brave, Firefox, Opera, etc)

There is a substantial difference between the market share Windows had in the late 90s and what iOS has now

Antitrust is not just about market share. It's about anticompetitive practices.

Sure, one answer. Whenever a company owning a "platform" also competes on the platform and sets the rules to favor themselves, this hurts competition. Regulation should ensure a fair playing field on the platform, preventing companies from putting up barriers to competition.

This is why Microsoft lost a lawsuit about bundling Internet Explorer onto the computing platform of Windows, this is why the platform of Google search has results rigged in favor of Google products, etc.

This is also why Net Neutrality is a good idea, the company that controls the "platform" of the Internet being delivered to your device shouldn't get to stifle competition by making some websites cheaper or more expensive to visit.

In this case, phones are a physical platform that should be opened to allow any software to run, and iOS is a software platform that should be opened to allow users to easily install alternative App Stores and easily install alternative applications not offered on the App Store.

"Apple finding another way to make [money]" will happen even if it doesn't get regulated. Look at how they're doing ads now. It's not like the only reason they didn't "find more ways" is because they thought they were making enough money.

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