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Comment by kaesar14 | Hacker News Reader

I’d honestly not want an immigrant in my country who lives there for 10 years without learning the language. What a way to not make any effort to integrate into your chosen society.

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In my experience, integration into a society is a gradual process with no well-defined boundaries. Maybe this is where US and many seemingly homogeneous EU countries differ?

Even if it was a “gradual” process it’s 10+ years. How do you talk to the people of that nation without learning any English? What about anything to do with documentation or the government?

Integrating into a society can mean many things but the FIRST step of that should be learning the local language to be able to talk to locals.

By the way, I’m American. Anyone who lives here for that long without learning English is what I’m talking about.

Because a large percentage of Germans probably speak English so you can still communicate with them without learning German. This is not the same as a single language country.

And yet many don’t - certainly wasn’t the case in my travels in Germany that everyone could speak English and that was coming into it as a tourist. Surely most Germans would prefer to speak their native language among friends as well, implying no such need among those who’ve never been able to learn it.

Clearly you can manage but I stand by my original opinion that I would not approve of hearing such a story from an immigrant.

>And yet many don’t - certainly wasn’t the case in my travels in Germany that everyone could speak English and that was coming into it as a tourist.

I've been a tourist in Germany too. Basically, if the German person you're talking to is university-educated, they speak English, and probably extremely well. If they aren't (like the cashier at the supermarket), they probably don't speak English much at all.

So many people don’t.

Learning the language may not be a strict requirement if the country and its people are friendly [] to immigrants. In that case the country makes extra effort to be welcoming and offers translation in their Government affairs.
For example, almost all Government locations in the Bay Area make every document available in several languages, including posted signs, forms etc.. And they have staff who can speak multiple languages. Also, many elders of Chinatown in San Francisco do not speak English, have spent almost all of their life here, yet are reasonably integrated into the American society (their kids generally know English).

[] Friendly needs explanation: US is friendly once you immigrate, not while you are immigrating. This is simply the demand-supply forces at play (too many people wanting to immigrate).

I may be mistaken, but I don't think any EU country makes an active and conscious effort to be "immigrant friendly".

Also, by "immigrant" I mean those who immigrate legally. American media clubs both legal immigrants and illegal aliens into the "immigrant" category, which can be hella confusing.

> I’d honestly not want an immigrant in my country who lives there for 10 years without learning the language. What a way to not make any effort to integrate into your chosen society.

Maybe they just there to save some amount of money and go back to their country?

That's not an excuse for not integrating into a culture with the bare minimum amount of effort. It is not hard to learn a language with 10 years of immersion.

> It is not hard to learn a language with 10 years of immersion.

Not hard? Which foreign languages did you learn as an adult?

French to a B2 certificate level from l’Académie Française without living in a Francophone country. Done in 2 years by self studying and forced media immersion. It is not hard to learn a foreign language in 10 years. Also watched my parents learn English in a year as a child moving to an Anglophone country.

Way to cut out the part where I said “it’s not hard to learn a foreign language” and just drop the time scale. It’s of course a lot of work but it is NOT difficult with such an opportunity to absord and practice.

Wow, good for you! Me and most people I discussed it with didn't find learning foreign languages easy. They consider it rather hard, in fact.

Every human being can learn to speak any language in 10 years. Poor immigrants do it in their chosen nations of residence all the time. Anyone who doesn’t is not trying, I’m sad to say.

You are moving the goalpost from "bare minimum amount of effor ... not hard..." to "can learn in 10 years", I'm sad to say.

My original message, verbatim:

“That's not an excuse for not integrating into a culture with the bare minimum amount of effort. It is not hard to learn a language with 10 years of immersion.”

Is it hard to learn a language in a year? Yes! That is not what I said. I said that not making the modicum of effort required over 10 years of practice and immersion required to achieve functional fluency is not difficult. It simply is not. The passive input alone is absolutely enormous, and it’s the least you can do to a country that’s graciously accepted you into its own borders.

> the least you can do to a country that’s graciously accepted you into its own borders

I'm sorry? Maybe more like "invited to prop up ponzi-pyramid of welfare state that the ageing local population can't sustain anymore"?

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