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Comment by ren_engineer | Hacker News Reader

at least the US has woken up to some degree. Humans are funny in how imagery impacts response to things. China has done trillions in damage to the US economy the past few decades but it wasn't tangible so we did nothing. They've killed far more people then 9/11 via shipping synthetic opioid precursors to Mexico but the response is non-existent. IP theft allowed them to undercut US businesses and destroy them but it's so abstract people don't get worked up into a frenzy over it compared to if they'd literally dropped a bomb on the same business

Russia should have paid attention to how much more effective economic and asymmetric warfare is compared to kinetic warfare

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>Russia should have paid attention to how much more effective economic and asymmetric warfare is compared to kinetic warfare

I am 100% sure that Russian state-sponsored trolls are largely responsible for the current state of the "culture war".

Do you remember when Facebook reported how much Russian state actors had spent on disinformation spread on that platform during the Trump presidential campaign? It was of the order of $100,000. Pocket change, to turn the brains of an entire nation into argumentative mush.

I don't. If it's virtually impossible to distinguish a Russian troll farm page from a traditional conservative/radical leftist from a home grown, private individual, then there is no problem. The impact Russian troll farms have had on the US social fabric is widely overestimated, the real harm to the social fabric is increased politicization.

>Russian troll farms .... increased politicization.

The two are linked. Those who wish to see Western culture fail, just want us at each others' throats.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/3kvvz3/russian-facebook-trol...

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/the-conversatio...

>It was of the order of $100,000

That was just their advertising budget. It doesn't include their hundreds of thousands of sockpuppet accounts operated by their clickfarms.

The narrative about Russia using FB to influence elections was pushed by the Clinton campaign. No one wanted to cover it was $100K as that compromised the narrative. They pushed that propaganda for 4 years, denying the election. Then, it became virtually illegal to talk about illegitime elections.

That’s $100k for ads. I remember seeing one of the anti-Clinton image memes in one of the Senate reports on the SandersForPresident forum. Makes me sick that Russian manipulators were there, too.

$100K ads is nothing. It is an ad budget that will get exhausted in few days with broad targeting parameters. The entire issue was a nothing burger, fabricated by one side to push their agenda.

I mean, US businesses willingly shipped their operations to China so it’s not really correct to lay all the blame on them. We could have kept our operations here but US business people wanted increased profits so they dismantled our industrial base and paid China to build up theirs.

The 80s and 90s had businesses gushing at the opportunities to

* liquidate unions

* avoid environmental laws

* take advantage of cheap labor

Both parties fell over themselves in paving the way for US businesses to move the bulk of their manufacturing outside the country.

The Chinese millionaire kids who are buying houses for cash are a product of the distillation of thousands of once blue collar jobs that burned to move production overseas.

Any derision in the quality of Chinese made goods should be directed at the companies themselves. Those factories are built what they are told to build. That brand that was once a mark of quality that is now making a shoddy product is just extracting value. Your Macbook Pro and that power tool in name only are made in the same place.

Many businesses had little choice. Their competition went to China and now could out price them while making a profit.

not sure you can say this when corporate raiders and hostile takeovers were the primary cause of all of this. Big difference between 'US business' and Wall Street

> Big difference between 'US business' and Wall Street

This depends on how you and I are using the terms. If you realize that I am using those terms somewhat synonymously, then what I said makes sense. You can disagree with the way I am using the words, but you can at least understand why I would make the claims that I did if that's how I am using those words.

I could have said "big business" which is closer to meaning "wall street" but this is semantic shorthand, and some misunderstandings may happen.

> US businesses willingly shipped their operations to China

Western governments encouraged it! “They’ll want to democratize!”

To be fair, China did democratize, compared with Mao's era.

Oh come on. Corporate America was hell-bent on killing unions and offshoring everything during the 90s. Mainstream politician were very supportive.

This is the end result.

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