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Comment by javier123454321 | Hacker News Reader

Depends on the school and what you as a practicioner bring to the table. Hinayana buddhism focuses a lot on renunciation of worldly affairs, but that's not all there is.

In vajrayana buddhism, you work with the knowledge that you have everything to be happy already inside you, and all you need to do is to stop limiting yourself and experience the inherent bliss of all experience. You take everything as an expression of the limitless potential of space to manifest, and you enjoy everything just because it can happen. Your happiness does not depend on anything external so you enjoy things as they come, but don't attach yourself and your wellbeing to an ever changing external world. Enlightenment is an absolute bliss filled experience, not a state of numbness.

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> you enjoy everything just because it can happen

I cannot enjoy the suffering of my children or the torture and murder of the innocent because "they can happen" which I'd be required to do in this so called "enlightenment." What you're describing is pure selfishness and taking pleasure in evil. That's horrific.

> Your happiness does not depend on anything external so you enjoy things as they come, but don't attach yourself and your wellbeing to an ever changing external world.

Which is total detachment from other people too and their needs and for making the external world better since any attempt to do so would be admitting that things in the external world can really be bad. That's not a recipe for happiness, it's a recipe for total loneliness and, if seriously adopted by enough people, societal collapse. We're a social species, demonstrably. Buddhism as you describe it appears to be a rejection of the real evils in the world, passions, charity, and society.

> Enlightenment is an absolute bliss filled experience, not a state of numbness.

"Bliss" built on the enjoyment of evil is infinitely worse than mere numbness.

> I cannot enjoy the suffering of my children or the torture and murder of the innocent because "they can happen" which I'd be required to do in this so called "enlightenment." What you're describing is pure selfishness and taking pleasure in evil. That's horrific.

Right. You won't enjoy those things. You just won't add additional unnecessary suffering. Buddhism doesn't teach to enjoy the terrible things about the world, nor to ignore them by some kind of numbness. The whole point is that there is an additional layer of suffering that is entirely optional. This is what they refer to as Dukkha in the "Four Noble Truths".

> Which is total detachment from other people too and their needs and for making the external world better since any attempt to do so would be admitting that things in the external world can really be bad. That's not a recipe for happiness, it's a recipe for total loneliness and, if seriously adopted by enough people, societal collapse. We're a social species, demonstrably. Buddhism as you describe it appears to be a rejection of the real evils in the world, passions, charity, and society. >"Bliss" built on the enjoyment of evil is infinitely worse than mere numbness.

I think your parents' comments admit of more charitable readings.

Somehow completely mistook the gist of what I was saying.

> "Bliss" built on the enjoyment of evil is infinitely worse than mere numbness.

It's a common misconception that you would be happy BECAUSE people are suffering around you. The goal is to separate the content of your experience from your ability to experience. Therefore you are in a natural state of bliss REGARDLESS of any external circumstance.

You can absolutely notice the suffering of others and it comes with a deep sense of compassion when you do. Since you understand that everyone shares in the same potential and that the suffering is caused by them not being able to see that, you are more effective at helping because you don't get caught up in the trip. The best way to help others is to show them the way out of that suffering, to give people the tools to also realize their potential.

The maxim in this kind of buddhism is to better yourself to be of most benefit to ALL sentient beings.

But yeah, if you are actually interested, it is best done through practice. Meditation has incredibly improved my experience of the world and made me more effective at dealing with difficult situations because I can have the distance to observe emotions as they appear and decide whether to use the energy they inherently express or let them fade back to where they came from without acting clumsily.

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