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Comment by segmondy | Hacker News Reader

Which is what Zuck is trying to get us all into with the Meta, but the world is not ready yet.

Don't forget to dissociate the concept of virtual worlds which already exist and are quite popular (MMOs etc.), and the idea of a virtual world owned and imagined by Zuckerberg which has been a terrible failure so far.

The opinions around facebook’s metaverse are hilarious when things like Second Life, WoW, EVE, VR Chat, and even Roblox have been so massively popular yet unrecognized for what they are.

Everyone just pretends there wasn't a time when people were spending years of their life in an MMO.

That was ruined by games trying to appeal to more mainstream people (with less hardcore Features like losing all your possessions upon death) and the micromonetization strategies that everyone hates.

I wonder if VR will even have games like early Everquest, WoW, EVE, etc but in VR.

The difference between Facebooks Meta and other worlds is the difference between getting a billion+ people into the same virtual world. How big is Second Life? or Roblox?

I don't think you can call that a difference until metaverse starts actually hitting those numbers, or even surpassing the existing worlds.

Near as I can tell, second life seems to have around 40-50k typical users online.

Which is sizable, but not amazing.

50k active users online right now would put Second Life at the 13th most active game on Steam.

Which is when folks start getting into the ‘huh. People still play that?’ part of the list, near as I can tell.

[https://store.steampowered.com/charts/mostplayed]

Yeah the way folks talk about steamcharts is wild. Honestly I think it’s kinda bad for gaming, but I understand why people do it.

> How big is... Roblox?

58.8 million DAUs in Q3 https://ir.roblox.com/news/news-details/2022/Roblox-Reports-...

Facebook is going to struggle to get a billion people on to their website/app soon. I really don’t see this many people wanting to use a shitty VR chat app.

I kinda think to some degree those words are the reason those opinions are the way they are. The metaverse is being sold as this new, groundbreaking, fantastic thing, when they've already existed for decades.

They've already existed, and had fun, engaging content. Meta in that sense is putting the cart before the horse. You can't convince us all to get into this world and then figure out what we're supposed to be doing there later on.

Also, VRChat is infinitely better than the Metaverse, does not require you to sell your soul to Facebook, does not require a branded headset (OR ANY AT ALL, YOU CAN PLAY IT 2D), runs well, HAS LEGS ON YOUR AVATAR FFS, and massive community support in and out of game.

Also it didn't require billions in investment. Facebook could have literally burned $900 million on hookers and cocaine, and then thrown $100 million to buy VR chat, and be better off than they are now.

I feel that Facebook's metaverse push is a desperate attempt to reverse the evolution of our identities from baseline, offline, unitary identity towards constructed and abstract, online, contextual, anime girls form. I don't know precisely why it's always specifically anime && girls, but everything else seems to fall face first so I guess it's survival of fittest.

It’s a side effect of where the early avatar creating tools had their development effort focused. Now it’s just a weird cultural thing.

I agree with everything except for the billions of dollars part. It seems quite obvious (but maybe I'm wrong?) that most of that investment went into the hardware that Meta has been developing over the years, and some of the "platform" capabilities that surround that hardware (think their app store for example). Sure, the virtual experiences are part of it. But I think it's not where the majority of the money went.

They currently have the most popular VR hardware platform. And it's the only piece of hardware that Meta really has, everything else they make is software. If Meta wants to keep growing, being the leading producer of "the next big thing" in hardware would certainly help. Zuckerburg is betting on VR/AR being that next big thing. Only time will tell I guess. But I find it a little weird when I see people commenting on Meta's investment as if all they did was create a basic second life clone. They're building some of the most innovative consumer hardware at the moment. I'm not hugely into it because Meta doesn't really seem like the company I'd like to entrust with cameras pointing at my eyeballs, but you can't deny that the hardware they've built so far is quite impressive.

Fortnite too.

> opinions around facebook’s metaverse are hilarious when things like Second Life, WoW, EVE, VR Chat, and even Roblox have been so massively popular

Well, yes. Who does something matters. I could totally see Facebook's metaverse failing a la Stadia or Diem.

I didn’t make myself clear enough, I was talking about people brushing off the core concept as intrinsically unfeasible. Obviously their specific version is tonedef and lacking features but the baseline concept is proven valid by those other versions.

No, I specifically oppose Facebook's metaverse ambitions because they are shittier mass-marketized versions of those same things.

All of those other things you mentioned fit into specific niches and have built communities around themselves over time.

Vtubers are popular because they aren’t in a virtual world you have to go visit. You just open up YouTube/Twitch and they stay in that little window without the possibility of getting trapped in an MMO where you die in real life if you die in the game.

Although some of them are designing “virtual worlds” as an excuse to get around YouTube moderation and taking 30% of superchats.

The difference is Zuck wants to control it. He wants to de-democratize the movement so he can more easily profit from it.

No, Zucks Metaverse just sucks. "The world isn't ready for my brilliant ideas" is the rallying cry of people with ideas but no execution ability.

Same thing was said about full touch screen iphones circa 2007.

VR/AR just hasn't been done right as of now, but its getting close. Demand is there. Imagine virtual schooling during time like Covid, but instead of Zoom, kids actually see each other in VR and can interact with each other.

Yeah it's pretty great, though I hope it won't be leveraged to reduce physical presence in social settings. The real world is still the place to be when possible, but it would be great not having to fly across the world for face to face meetings. Teams is just not good enough. VR might eventually become so.

And then their avatars could have cloth masks, you know, just for show, like why TV anchors wore them.

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