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Comment by throw8383833jj | Hacker News Reader

It's not just iron that's lacking in our diets. Magnesium is an extremely important mineral that is lacking in nearly every modern diet across the globe. it's the procressing of food that removes three crucial minerals: magnesium, potassium and iron. Back when white bread/processing was first becoming mainstream, people got all kinds of diseases because the processing removed all the B-vitamins. they actually had to pass laws to force manufacturers to re-add all the B-vitamins back into the food, after the processing. this addressed many of the most common diseases but they did'nt re-add the Magnesium and Iron, hence why everyone is deficient in Magnesium and iron. There's a pretty decent amount of research showing the connection between magnesium and diseases not typically associated with diet (and hence why this has not been addressed).

Eating a whole foods diet (non processed) can definitely address it but that's a tall order for most people.

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By trial and error, I am now taking this daily regimen of supplements.

- Magnesium (I have problem with leg cramps while sleeping, the magnesium stopped it).

- D3 (Doctor said I need it).

- B12 Complex (I feel more energetic).

- PreserVision for my eyes. (May be placebo but it seems to help?)

- I am searching for something to reduce the amount of mucus created by allergies. I tried turmeric and other things marketed as healthy inflammation response. But so far no luck.

Have you looked at your diet? I used to have a ton of mucus, and cutting out bad carbs from my diet (processed bread, waffles, store-bought muffins, etc.) pretty much eliminated the issue. Peppers / nightshades can be an issue for some people too.

The purpose of mucus is so that your body can temporarily lock up some kind of inflammatory agent that it is being exposed to and limit the damage.

Usually these types of things are solved by removal rather than addition (of something in your life).

Thanks. I have been careful with my diet. I try to avoid as much processed food as possible. Still tinkering with it.

In addition to the sibling comment, the number one suspect in all cases of excuses mucus production is dairy.

A simple trial-avoidance challenge regime of no dairy for two weeks followed by reintroducing dairy on day 15 should give you strong indicators if dairy is a problem for you.

Could be air born allergens too, so may not help at all.

Thanks. I had both a skin test and a blood test for allergens. They said my main problem is dust mites. I have the allergenic/dust mite proof covers for my pillows and mattresses which helped a lot. I am in the process of removing all carpeting etc.

Consider a dust mite hoover (Hoover Ultra Vortex is popular). Also good to have some turnover routine for your mattress as dust usually accumulates underneath in the bed frame.

Black Seed Oil at night also helped me as a mild natural antihistamine. I’m not sure whether it can / should be taken for extended time (my otolaryngologist saw no problem but I’m not sure).

I've had trouble with mucus and allergies as well as some other issues. I've systematically trying to cut out the vast majority of processed food in my diet as well as diversifying my diet.

It's actually quite a challenge and requires a lot of retraining even for someone well versed in nutrition. It's so easy to fall into the endless number of traps: dairy and fig newton bars, granola bars, etc. the food industry has created an endless array of seemingly healthy items but that are actually all come from the same three ingredients: processed wheat, sugar and oil. and we as consumers tend to vastly overestimate the amount of healthy ingredients in something because we aren't aware of the caloric densities of everything that goes into it (sugar is 4 cals per gram, oil is 9 cals per gram, veggies are 0.3 cals per gram -> this ends up being very misleading when you compare relative amounts by eyeball). For example: did you know that pumpkin pie is barely 3% pumpkin? i was surprised as well. i didn't realize this until I actually calculated the numbers, detailed here: https://kale.world/pumpkin-pie-is-only-3-percent-pumpkin/

Personally, my general rule of thumb is, if the food didn't come directly from nature: (like a tree or bush or ground), then it's most likely a food like substance that has been processed (and thus goodness removed from it). so, i make most of my diet come from the primary 6 food groups: fruits, vegetables, beans, whole grains, tubers, nuts/seeds. If you do this, you'll get all the magnesium and fiber you need because most of the real food groups are quite high in magnesium, fiber, protein and almost every micronutrient (on average).

I would recommend N-acetylcysteine (NAC) to reduce mucus and help with inflammation of the respiratory system among other things.

My mother had chronic bronchitis and asthma for years and was dependent on daily inhaled corticosteroids to be able to breathe normally, after having her on 800-1600mg of NAC for a year now she only has to use her inhaler once every few months.

I use it for my permanently clogged nose (allergies from spring to fall, a persistent low level cold in the winter). It’s so freeing to not be an eternal mouth breather.

But don’t be swayed by my n of 2 sales pitch, do your own research!

(The linked healthline article isn’t of the highest quality but at least it cites it’s sources)

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/nac-benefits#TOC_TITLE_...

Thank you!!!

This just keeps getting worse and worse, with no end in sight. I recently looked at the school lunch ingredient lists here in California. The hamburger buns contain both corn syrup and sucralose (splenda). I really wonder what the rationale is.

I guess they need to put the splenda in so that they screw up all the kids' metabolism + gut microbes, but they also need to make sure the food isn't accidentally diabetic safe?

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised. This is the same bureaucracy that defunded science and art education, and attempted to defund calculus (so that only rich districts with educational foundations would have those things). I kind of suspect it's some sort of intentional long-game eugenics program. I wonder if there is some way for rich Californian parents to band together to pay extra for non-malicious school lunches (as with science and art education).

(Or, better, force the state government to stop sucking so much!)

The hamburger buns contain both corn syrup and sucralose (splenda). I really wonder what the rationale is.

They want to make the buns tasty but don't want too many calories. Makes sense to me.

You don't need sugar to make bread tasty. Especially savory bread.

Most industrially baked breads contain sugar. Typically 2-5g per slice. I haven't really had industrial bread without sugar, but it doesn't surprise me that the sugar is required for taste. "Good" bread has long ferment periods that gives the bread a lot of time to develop flavor. It's probably much faster to cut the long ferment periods and use sugar for flavor instead.

It's a trade-off between food that's entirely healthy and food the majority of kids (who are not accustomed to a healthy diet) will actually eat. There's a huge amount of food waste in schools. If you don't have kids in US public schools, just know it's pretty common for kids to get a full school lunch just to eat the fries or drink the milk/juice, and discard the rest. Similarly for school breakfasts with things like frosted flakes. Absolutely not healthy, but if the alternative is not eating at all, it's understandable that administrators feel obligated to compromise.

> pretty common for kids to get a full school lunch just to eat the fries

It an educational establishment, perhaps it should start with some basic nutrition education.

> if the alternative is not eating at all

Anyone who has kids and have insisted on a healthy diet knows this is false. Kids won’t eat for a while but then, like everyone else, they will eat most anything when hunger is strong enough.

Why should the bread be sweet in the first place?

i think a big part of it is people simply don't value good food and don't see it as impacting health. Crazy as it sounds, i've had otherwise intelligent people tell me they don't think the food they eat has any impact on their health. That was a big eye opener for me, in terms of what other people think.

When cookies were removed from schools, some parents even protested (literally protested, as in with signs and petitioning outside of the school marching back and forth -> i saw it on the news) for the cookies to be put back in !!!! My jaw nearly dropped to the floor and rolled out the door. It's just clear, that there's a lot of really really misinformed people in the world.

Also, not all healthy food is expensive. Organic Beans are super low cost and make an excellent staple. Personally, I also love oat meal. both are super high in nutrients, fiber and protein and very low cost.

Fiber can inhibit the absorption of some nutrients, so be mindful of when you consume it in regards to vitamins or supplements.

Magnesium is also decreasing due to produce being less nutritious than 100 years ago.

I think magnesium supplementation is important also because of its connection to depression. Zink also a good idea, but iron ? I think many men have too much of it because there is not enough bleeding (insect bites, etc...) in modern society.

Absolutely. But also, consider some natural sources as well. Cashews and Pumpkin seeds are pretty dense with magnesium, as well as nuts in general. I've calculated the relative mineral density of many many foods: https://kale.world/c

Cool site but some of the foods I don’t recognize: Waxgourd? Fireweed ? Nopales? And many others.

Well, once you really start learning about lots of healthy natural foods, you'll start to recognize these more. Waxgourd is a large melon that tastes great in smoothies with a bit of pepper and honey. Or you can turn it into a tasty soup, as done in chinese cuisine. Nopales are a bit more present in mexican cooking, you know those big spiky plate like plants. Many of the other plants on there sometimes grow freely in your backyard: like dandelion, dock, purslane. Some people use derogatory references such as "weeds" to refer to them but it's highly innaccurate. these plants are some of the most nutritious things you can eat, you just need to know how to cook them and how to adjust your taste buds to all the great foods humans used to eat on a regular basis. I've been on a journey to understand all the natural foods found in nature, and it's quite a learning process as we've been so conditioned (in the wrong direction) by industry on what food is.

There's over 80,000 edible plant species in the world. I only know a few of them. But, I hope to get to know more of them over time.

Cool site, the sliders are super intuitive for exploration. I was pleasantly surprised to see Cauliflower rank high in Choline, it's more readily available from animal sources. Do the portion sizes differ for each item? Eggs have 7.6x times Choline from Cauliflower per 100g based on USDA data:

Cauliflower nutrition: https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/fdc-app.html#/food-details/169986/n...

Eggs nutrition: https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/fdc-app.html#/food-details/748967/n...

the portion sizes are all normalized to 200 calories. The nice thing about that is it gives you a great way of comparing caloric equal portion sizes.

True but this is due to selection of faster growing varietals by farms. If you buy old-school vegetables you get old-school vitamins and minerals. Buy direct, buy fresh, buy local.

> If you buy old-school vegetables you get old-school vitamins and minerals. Buy direct, buy fresh, buy local.

You're going to have some problems during winter.

This is why canning and food preservation was so important

Only for the local part, not as it pertains to the vitamins. Notwithstanding, year-round most of the produce in large grocery stores isn't local and will never be.

Actually, the stuff in the store has usually been in warehouses for long periods of time. During that time, they lose nutrients.

Some, probably vitamin C. But that can be recouped with produce that always has lots anyway, e.g. tomatoes.

Not just vitamin C. B vitamins can be reduced by up to 70%. There is degradation with many other nutrients as well.

"Up to" doesn't paint a realistic picture, but it's a moot point. Nutritional deficits in the West are a result of poor consumption choices, not the lack of nutrition in produce.

Eat stuff that grows in winter? Hardy vegetables have their season now in many latitudes, it's not that tricky. If you live in the tundra I am sorry for you and please move to Costa Rica if your skin can tolerate it.

> it's not that tricky

Are you serious? I live at 39.75 latitude in the USA with strong winters with snow and ice. There’s no way you’re growing vegetables in winter here without a greenhouse. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Do you live in California?

This is true of the Midwest, and anything in the Northeast north of say, Wilmington Delaware or even Baltimore depending on the year.

I live in a place conducive to human life and not a barren wasteland, yes. Y'all should move here! It's Lisbon by the way.

You think everyone who lives anywhere with snow in the winter should move to Portugal?

No, anywhere in a moderate climate will do.

That's only part of the issue. Soil composition is another part. Those "old-school" vegetables also need to be grown in old-school soil, using natural fertilizer (or at least fertilizers with additional minerals beyond the typical stuff).

It's also, the actual air. There's more CO2 in the air these days. this super charges the growth of plants: vegetables and cereal crops. But, the amount of minerals in the plant remains the same but the plants grow larger with more sugar content. and so the amount nutrients per calories drops. this has been proven and documented.

why is it that any time i read about a nutrient (iron, magnesium, etc) i check my multi-vitamin and find that it's not even there? if these are so important, why I am taking 12,000% of my daily vitamin B and C and 0% of some other ones?

Some essential nutrients are dangerous in excess.

It's estimated that 200,000 Americans a year suffer from an iron overload which can cause all sorts of problems including damaging your heart. So it's not considered to be a good thing for a "one a day" supplement to habitually contain iron.

Many Americans are deficient in potassium and you might think, "cap up some KCl and take one a day". KCl can slow down your heart rate and reduce your blood pressure which is good to some extent but if you could buy KCl supplement that gave 100% of your daily potassium need some people would be dropping dead from an overdose of potassium (a potassium is part of the usual lethal injection cocktail), not necessarily because 1 pill is dangerous but because some people are going to take 10. Also some people take pharmaceuticals that either raise or lower potassium levels so what is too small of a dose for some people would be dangerous for others.

The 12,000% of your daily dose for most things is a scam with the possible exception of vitamin B₁₂ for which many people have bio-availability problems.

The oral ld50 of potassium is measured in grams (Wikipedia is listing at 2.5g/kg). An overdose would be fairly intentional and there are more poisonous things you are likely consuming daily.

The weird thing is that potassium salt is really cheap and available. I use it with some Mio to make water drinks that have an actual appreciable amount of potassium in them.

Oral potassium is dramatically less toxic than IV potassium, because the body has to actively transport the ions and it's not terribly interested in killing itself. It could still be dangerous in very high doses, but that's unlikely to happen by accident.

However, oral potassium does have other effects. The proton pump in the stomach works by exchanging K+ for H+. Excess potassium may affect its functioning. There are several reports of nausea and pain with potassium supplements [1], although I've been adding KCl/NaCl "lite salt" to my work lunches for a long time with no problems.

1: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...

You would also burn a hole in your stomach if you took a 2-3g potassium pill(s).

For what it's worth: I've used "losalt" drinks for potassium-replenishment (especially during carbless diets), and it works well. Hard to overdose, because it will induce vomiting if you get reckless with the ratio of water to losalt.

PaulHoule is correct; potassium and iron are dangerous in excess. Magnesium you can just take in a separate supplement since you really want more of it than easily fits in a multivitamin.

You can get sufficient potassium by eating 2-3 meals with plenty of vegetables or leafy greens every day, and you can get sufficient iron by eating animal meat (unless you have a diagnosed iron deficiency and need to supplement with it directly).

Calcium can inhibit iron absorption. If your multi-vitamin has calcium, it likely won't have iron.

there's a big difference between minerals and vitamins. Potassium and magnesium are minerals and they are a bit harder to stuff into a pill. Also, vitamins (especially vitamin C) can be found in much higher abundance in a particular food.

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