Comment by concinds | Hacker News Reader

Comment by concinds | Hacker News Reader

For context: AirDrop was one of the only ways protesters had to communicate en-masse.

Signal is unsafe for Chinese protesters, since it requires SMS verification upon signup and is therefore linked to your identity.[0] Mesh networks are the only real solution there, and AirDrop is about the only mainstream one. AirDrop has been used by Asian protesters for years.[1] I highly recomment you read the full China Digital Times article, which gives excellent context, and lets these protesters explain the value of AirDrop in their own words.[1]

Apple's timing is unmistakeably suspicious; keep in mind that there have been protests for weeks, which preceded the iOS update.

It must also be pointed out that Apple issued an official statement to Western media outlets that the goal was to prevent spam.[2] At no point did Apple ever admit that this was done to follow any government demand. It's unknown whether Apple could be under a Chinese gag-order, but we shouldn't speculate that it's the case unless experts say it's likely. If Apple is complying with a Chinese government orders, then it has an ethical duty to make that public, and again, we have, as of yet, no reason to assume there are gag orders related to this. Apple deserves criticism for the update, and for trying to hide its true purpose.

[0]: https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/159707255662827929...

[1]: https://chinadigitaltimes.net/2022/11/netizen-voices-apple-r...

[2]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-10/apple-lim...

Note: AirDrop is unsafe for broadcasting message anonymously. It will also broadcast your hashed phone number and email[1], which can be reversed by rainbow table.

[1]: https://privatedrop.github.io/

True, but invalidated by burner and jailbroken phones which are widespread in China. They can definitely catch somebody with a concerted effort but I'd be surprised if the average Chinese teenager couldnt figure out how to make a burner email

I think the problem is the majority of people don't know that airdrop isn't actually anonymous, sure there are workarounds but it doesn't matter if 99% of users don't follow them.

People in China have burner Apple phones? That sounds kind of crazy. Even if jailbroken I doubt they are mitigating for this.

There are markets in China where you can buy all the parts super cheap and build your own iPhone. It's like nothing you'd ever see in the western world. Hundreds of stalls all selling an individual specific selection of phone components, and if you ask for something they don't have, they'll recommend their friend's stall to you.

Apple have sold billions of iPhones. All those second hand "recycled" parts go somewhere.

That sounds like an incredible place to visit

Devil's advocate: If you already don't worry about exposing this info then why not just use Telegram or Signal?

Because AirDrop only exposes the info of the sending phone, not the receiving phone.

An iphone can be bought and emails can be registered without doxing yourself, so this info isn't strongly tied to your identity the same way a phone number is.

Signal can't be used at all in China anyway since the verification texts are blocked. I've tried contacting Signal support about this (I live in China and want to use Signal) but as soon as I tell them I love in China and have a Chinese phone number they stop replying :)

To be fair, it's the only real solution anywhere, and it's just us who is playing dumb and pretending SMS verification is absolutely fine and totally acceptable for a "secure messenger" in our free and happy democratic society. Jesus, the level of absurdity here...

> ethical duty to make that public

There are gag orders in the US and UK too, which companies have to follow or they are breaking the law. Are they unethical too?

Or do you mean, it is unethical for apple to not tell Americans what the Chinese government has asked them to do within China, to Chinese citizens, in order to benefit from being legally in good standing and able to continue to do commerce within China?

If so, then is it unethical for them to follow US gag orders and not tell the Chinese public?

Please read the full sentence.

> If Apple is complying with a Chinese government orders, then it has an ethical duty to make that public, and again, we have, as of yet, no reason to assume there are gag orders related to this.

I am saying that if there's no gag order, they have an ethical duty to reveal why they're doing this.

Oh, I see. This makes even less sense to me now!

Considering we live in a world of constantly updating SaaS, where is the ethical obligation to explain changes?

I'm happy to receive a change log that says 10% of what has changed, and generally expect to not get a reason.

How many entire products has Google killed with no explanation?

I have a feeling this is only become a question of "ethics" because this change tangentially touches protests & CCP.

It's not "tangential". It was only rolled out in China. My phone outside of China, with latest iOS update, still has no time limit on Airdrop. Protesters in China as of now have a time limit. (It depends on the country in which the phone was purchased, like with missing Taiwan flag emoji.)

These pro-freedom protests are the event in China and there is simply no way Apple flipped this change just now just for China by accident for completely unrelated reasons.

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