Steam Deck’s Greatness Makes It Hard to Go Back to the Switch | Hacker News Reader

Steam Deck’s Greatness Makes It Hard to Go Back to the Switch

kotaku.com

52 pointsredbell34 comments

I doubt Nintendo views the steam deck as a competitor. I don’t think they really see the PS5, Xbox Series X/S, or PC gaming as competitors either.

They are happy to truck along doing their own thing with (comparably) affordable hardware and relying on great first party games to sell systems.

You can access the entire switch library with a $200 switch lite compared to the $500 entry level Steam Deck. If you spring for the $350 OLED switch you get the dock and controller included too, which the Steam Deck doesn’t include.

Despite the Steam Deck being an excellent piece of hardware and the switch being underpowered, the Switch is going to end up being the 3rd or 4th best selling console of all time. Currently 5th and likely to overtake at least the PS4.

Publishers won't see the Steam Deck as a new platform vs PC, and that's what really matters to be a competitor.

I thought, maybe Valve was going to make that kind of play, but almost immediately after getting mine I realized Valve was not thinking that big (or if they were, their actions don't sell it).

I was actually going to write an article on how not to do onboarding, using the Deck as an example, but enough time has passed I forgot most of the learnings, but I would summarize my experience with the Deck as "Very smart people worked on all the fun, exciting, challenging parts of making a new product... and rushed through the boring parts like a kid doing homework in their least favorite subject".

One example off the top of my head: login. I worked on a greenfield consumer hardware project with a similar rich UI, and before we had our SoC finalized (COVID made that fun), we were already protoyping "boring" things like signing in with your existing device and a code, because we _knew_ that those first few minutes are unbelievably important for how people view your product. Making them type in a long secure password is a great way to ruin their excitement.

There's a bunch of (very visible) polish things that are 100% excusable for the Deck, and I still enjoy it... but just don't show Valve having anyone having driven this thing as "we want to be the new console platform".

And to be clear I'm not passing judgement on that either: the Steam Deck essentially turning Valve into a PC manufacturer putting out one of the coolest "PCs" for an extremely good price is not terrible. And I totally understand the value of it being "just another PC", it turns out being a PC gives you a lot of value when it comes to having a gaming library!

But I can't help but dream of what could have been. A world where the Steam Deck really came correct as its own platform. A smattering of games have thrown carrots to the Steam Deck, like C2077 adding quality presets and the like, but I'm imagining mainstream games not being considered shipped without extensive testing and optimization specifically for the Steam Deck just like an independent console. Gameplay features being designed specifically for the unique form factor and having that be a selling point for the "Steam Deck edition"

I also think it would have put some good pressure on the incumbents when it comes to the "console manufacturer - publisher" relationship, since Valve has proven that they're much more reasonable to deal with (Greenlight launched at a time when companies like Nintendo were still forcing you to sign an NDA just to see how much a dev-kit cost, before you'd even dream of launching a game for their console)

Hopefully some of what you want will come in the future.

Steam deck has made it from “niche pre order thing for enthusiasts” to “niche thing I can buy whenever I want”, which is a great step.

It’s probably the most successful hardware venture from Valve since they tried to make Steam Machines back in 2014. Hopefully they keep up the momentum.

As for the "homework" you mentioned valve should've done, they did it. They've mentioned that they'll work with game studios of all sizes to help them make their games compatible on launch with the steam deck, both in technical terms (proton on Linux) and in usability (ui on a small screen).

Glad a person on HN who probably already has an affinity for tech can settle for subpar onboarding... but I guess they pay me to do a little better than subpar (and I'm wishing Valve had aimed for a little better than subpar) which is why I'm judging on a similar standard.

I don't want to dox myself over this, but the Verge review for the steam deck is starts with "it's not ready". The Verge review for our product starts with how easy it was to setup and how impressed they were with the UI (which has to deal with constrained input just like the Deck)

While they're not direct competitors, I leave you to guess which is more approachable to the average user.

Valve clearly did not put in nearly as much effort into the polish of the frontend software as they did with the hardware and lower level stuff.

Hardware wise the thing is a marvel, and Proton is an engineering marvel... but then a top post on the subreddit is complaining that they can't even get the back button right for the store.

It's things like that which separate a tech toy from a console.

Working with game studios is one thing, having massive widespread appeal so they feel compelled to take you up on it is another.

Well, the I guess I can't comment then. I'm extremely happy with my steam deck, probably because I'm a very specific subset of the target audience: a gamer who happens to love tinkering with stuff.

Valve themselves say that they don't view the Switch as a competitor: https://boilingsteam.com/valves-lawrence-yang-and-pierre-lou...

Entry level steam deck is 419€

At this point, I will always buy a game on my Steam Deck over my Switch for one reason - competency of the online service infrastructure.

Nintendo has been woefully behind in this area for over a decade. You still need friend codes just to play online, and universal cross-game invites are not a given. There are also no guarantees that current Switch games will be playable on whatever comes next - while Nintendo usually does backwards compatibility for one previous generation, they made a clean break from Wii U to Switch.

I'd argue Nintendo is less behind and more that Steam has been stupidly ahead of pretty much all other app stores for awhile now. I mean what other store has an entire section[0] dedicated to defiling you're programs integrity in a way that would make your average walled garden security user cry?

[0]https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/

Not sure you can call Workshop as "defiling" anything, developers need to enable that and integrate it into their games, it's not like traditional mods that sometimes hook into the game engine from the outside without official game devs doing something to support it.

Nintendo's online stuff is pretty bad but I don't think the friend code thing is a good example of that.

The lower the friction of in-game interaction, the easier you make griefing, harassment, predatory interactions with minors, etc. Most platforms are trying to balance this out and find a "sweet spot" where it doesn't get in your way too much and you don't get too much bullshit. But importantly not zero bullshit.

Nintendo has just pushed that lever as far as it can go in the other direction. You can't do much, and it's not easy, but you're essentially never going to interact with strangers without going out of your way to. Which almost completely eliminates those negative interactions.

The jank of online play, dropped connections, the godawful performance of the e-shop, all valid targets. Friend codes are an intentional choice though and one very clearly aligned with how they see themselves.

Maybe not a typical use case for Steam Deck, but I have been using Deck as Linux desktop for last 3 months, coding/chatting/browsing 1-3 hr/day, and really happy about it. To my surprise, read-only root is really not a big deal, VM and container are quite mature and work well on SteamOS (based on Arch Linux). The only problem for me so far is printing bc most printers requires installing drivers on root.

Do you use an external display?

IMO, Nintendo has always been a bit behind on hardware, and most of their draw is the exclusive titles.

I have both a switch and a steamdeck, and if a game is offered on both, I'll buy the PC/Steam version.

The deck is larger, but actually fits quite well in my large hands, and I'm quite impressed of the amount of games that run well on it. It's not a replacement for a true gaming PC, but it's access to the existing steam library (and other PC games if you are clever) makes it quite an offering.

The devices have majorly different target markets, which makes it hard to compare them.

It's not just your opinion, it's a Nintendo design philosophy:)

https://nevalalee.wordpress.com/2014/01/09/withered-hardware...

Though that said the N64 was supposedly a lot more advanced than the ps1, though I think that is debatable. Also the snes feels more advanced than the megadrive to me (genesis in America)

Makes me want to dig out my gameboy color...

Thanks for the link, i like that philosophy, Sony/Microsoft got a lot to learn, i stopped being interested with consoles right at the PS3 gen, the race for photo realism in gaming made me loose interest

Indies are the ones who saved PC gaming for me

> it's a Nintendo design philosophy:)

if only that philosophy delivered hardware that was not so prone to failure. I have owned my switch for 2 1/2 years and it is on its third set of controllers and now the screen is registering phantom taps.

The lack of software support makes the Deck less 'hybrid' than the Switch in my opinion. Steam games aren't made to automatically detect if you're playing docked or portable, not allowing for easy configuration swaps when switching. So a Steam Deck will actually default to running games at 720p even when connected to a 4K display. Switching resolutions from 720p to 4K at the same graphical settings would be an awful experience when newer games cannot run at even 720p 60fps on the Deck. But when it's a game that could easily run at 1080p or higher that I want to dock for multiplayer, such as the Jackbox Party Pack games, it's annoying.

As strictly portable use, the Steam Deck is on the bigger and heavier side. Not enough that it's unusable, but enough that more often then not, I'd rather pick up my Switch to-go or just forgo bringing a gaming device altogether and just use my phone if there's nothing I feel like playing on Switch. Also I find d-pad controls on the Steam Deck very uncomfortable, for example trying to play Tetris Effect Connected on it, while I can play Tetris 99 for hours on my Switch fine.

I really don't see them as competitors, I want a steam deck, but it wouldn't make me stop playing my switch. I can't bring the steam deck to a family member's house on the holidays and play switch sports or mario party with a group of people. They serve different purposes.

Steam Deck is:

- very big and heavy

- button placement is very bad (as a result of the size)

- steam software is just bad, slow and resource intensive (it's basically a web browser powered by chromium)

- not every games are compatible

- not every games have controller support

The Nintendo Switch is imo a better handheld console, it's the perfect size and you know you can play every games released for the switch, so you are not gambling

Valve control the Steam platform, and yet they can't enforce Deck's compatibility, worse, games that worked can end up not working anymore [1]

I don't own a Switch, i'm still waiting for a proper Switch alternative/successor, hopefully Sony will decide to revive the PSP

[1] - https://twitter.com/gamingonlinux/status/1596824471670648832

Switch:

- Has a nearly unusable store front where discovery is basically impossible

- Requires you to pay for online matchmaking, while having a worse online user experience than the Xbox360

- Has remarkably fragile joysticks prone to drifting after any decent amount of play

- Has no capability of streaming from my pc

- Doesn't support modding

I would love to live in a world where Nintendo had a modern digital presence, but we just aren't there.

That said, your points aren't wrong. The switch is definitely more ergonomic so if I know a game is on there and I don't care to mod it then that's where I go.

> - Has a nearly unusable store front where discovery is basically impossible

A store is a place to buy games, i don't want no algorithm telling me what i "should" buy, you can easily manipulate it to promote your friends with lot of money, wich is already what's happening with Steam, i miss the old days of people sharing about games they found and writting about them on blog posts, i find new indie games to play thanks to the various youtubers, not thanks to "steam algorithm"

> - Requires you to pay for online matchmaking, while having a worse online user experience than the Xbox360

Xbox360? some data is leaking agent John, but yeah, that sucks, but they added RetroGaming capabilities, so there is that

> - Has remarkably fragile joysticks prone to drifting after any decent amount of play

I agree with you on that, build quality is very poor, hence why i personally don't own a Switch

> - Has no capability of streaming from my pc

I'm not interested in that

> - Doesn't support modding

I'm not interested in that

> I would love to live in a world where Nintendo had a modern digital presence, but we just aren't there.

I'm not interested in that

A nintendo switch lite is 199€, steam deck is 419€, double the price

As an owner of both, the Switch catches up in price fast when we start talking about cost of the games over time vs. what you can save on a regular basis in Steam sales. Nintendo is infamous for rarely putting its exclusive games on sale, despite how many of its competitors have no problem with that (i.e. PlayStation Greatest Hits).

I would also argue that the game library in Steam is vastly superior; more options, more titles, and lots of great indie games.

If you don't like Steam at all, installing Windows or just using Proton directly in the desktop mode (to install/add your own games from other sources) is a viable option.

The retro gaming offerings are embarrassing compared to what the Wii had.

You pay a subscription to have access to a small list of games. The virtual console was way better, and more complete.

Since we’re talking about personal experiences the price difference is non issue for me. I already have more than 200 games in my Steam library with about half of them running fine on the Deck. I would have to buy games on Switch if I had one, but with Deck I’m already settled.

Are the games running on chromium? Genuine question as I did consider buying one.

no, just the steam client, it's using CEF [1], wich is what electron uses

[1] - https://github.com/chromiumembedded/cef

Thanks!

Not at all, just the store / collection manager / launcher, Steam proper / the Steam application is based on web technology. And it's a pretty adequate application, a little clunky but works fine.

I was super bummed out when steam switched to chromium. Goodbye super fast interfaces, hello slowmium.

it crashes waaaaaaay less now though. It's easy to forget how often old steam would crash

The Deck's size and button placement is a million times better than the Switch. It's more comfortable to hold and use, and has a bigger screen.

> heavy

not at all. It's much lighter than it looks like. Everyone who has one says that.

> button placement is very bad (as a result of the size)

Nobody ever complained about that after having one in their hands

> steam software is just bad, slow and resource intensive (it's basically a web browser powered by chromium)

Do you spend time on your web browser in a console?

> not every games are compatible

At least you have games, and more than enough good ones are compatible.

> not every games have controller support

That's why you have trackpads for. Genius! Been playing many mouse-driven games on the Steam Deck and it's fine.

We have both. The steam deck has better graphics but the difference is negligible. Most games I’ve tried map the steam deck controls automatically, and with the exception of quake saves move from pc to deck easily.

Clearly the Nintendo is better for the games that are exclusive to its platform. The steam deck doesn’t have the anticheat for some games.

My initial deck had a battery issue (about 10 minutes of life) but support walked me through a bunch of things and they replaced it. 2nd times a charm. The deck can boot into a Linux desktop which is kinda fun.

There is a gog and epic game store proton game launcher I use on my Linux pc I should try… but that’s for another day..

Reply on news.ycombinator.com