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Comment by senthil_rajasek | Hacker News Reader

"The carefully split the wire part" in many places has me concerned about electric shock.

Is this wiring upto code in the U.S?

Also, the comment at the end to use "hooks" beats the whole point of using magnets.

The two conductors in the wire are insulated separately and sort of lightly attached so it's probably OK if done carefully.

If this was me, I would've threaded the lights through the big triangle piece directly and attached with zip ties, instead of modifying the cord.

> Also, the comment at the end to use "hooks" beats the whole point of using magnets.

Installing a nondescript hook up there would be a one-time use of a ladder which could just be borrowed or rented from somewhere. Future decorations can be done with just the extending pole and magnetic attachment.

Haha, code. IIRC, Christmas lights have their own exception in the NEC, as the things are wildly unsafe by general NEC standards. For example, nothing stops you from plugging a space heater into the outlet at the end of a string. But relax, it's Christmas!

Having said that, OP's lights are built a bit more solid because they look like the 120V parallel-wired style, rather than the series wired tiny lights. I'd be completely comfortable splitting the two conductors down the middle like that. That's exactly what you do to terminate a wire, although doing it in the middle of a cable is trickier because you need to be more accurate. Start the split with a sharp knife at one point, then you should be able to just pull the conductors apart.

For the general idea, I love it and it has me wondering if my gutters are steel. Although part of me wants to permanently hang WS2812 strips and be decorated for every holiday.

Despite the electrical risks, it's crazy how much Christmas safety has improved.

I remember https://i.imgur.com/vKbfzEs.jpg from my childhood. Small metal clips to attach real candles to the Christmas tree. 20-50 open flame candles on a dried out Spruce, one of the best fire starters possible.

I still use those.

Why? That looks like a guaranteed way to result in an accident for a pretty minor novelty. If nothing else, using leds that look like candles would be less maintenance with the huge upside that they are incredibly unlikely to be able to start a fire.

Some people in Central Europe still use real candles on the Christmas tree. Of course, you place the candles carefully and don't leave them unattended.

(I have no idea how common it is, but I've seen the candles and brackets for sale.)

It is fairly common in Germany. There’s a special size of candles that fits those holders (Christbaumkerzen) and they’re a thing you’ll find everywhere in shops around Christmas time. I’ve never had a tree with LED in my entire life.

You must observe some safety rules, have a bucket of water or an extinguisher at hand (not under the tree) and never leave the candles unattended. And yes, be careful where you place the candles. Can’t have a branch that’s hanging over them.

If it was a guaranteed accident like you suggest people wouldn't have done it for decades. Not the safest thing, but judging by the news it seems not even close to all the injuries weeks later from fireworks.

I've got to wonder if part of the reason it seems insane is because we've gotten used to single/dual generation households. If you light candles on a tree, then it's a commitment for you or your partner to be in the same room as that tree until the candles are extinguished. But if there is an older generation sitting around to be on firewatch, then it doesn't seem so limiting.

Pro-tip to keep your tree longer: spray water on the tree itself!

Could be worse: use last-year's spruce/fir preserved using glycerine and/or formaldehyde. Try eco-friendly or self-made decoration from real hay, paper, and wood instead of metal or plastic. Use combustible adhesive to bend into form. Also, use candles from bee's wax instead of parrafin or stearin for extra temperature, flame height, and CO. No risk, no fun ;)

It somehow never occurred to me that - obviously the traditional Christmas lights were candles. Unless the original method was to cut at tree, decorate a still wet one for a day, and then toss it - how did anyone ever consider that a good idea?

You would be present when they were burning which I assume was on Christmas Eve in most places. Tree was probably cut down the same day too.

But yeah it’s an awful idea. People YOLOd more back in the day.

> nothing stops you from plugging a space heater into the outlet at the end of a string.

I think a lot of christmas lights come with unpolarized plugs to make this more challenging. Also the tiny (3amp?) built-in fuses give you an extra level of protection beyond what you'd get with a simple extension cord of similar specs.

>Although part of me wants to permanently hang WS2812 strips and be decorated for every holiday.

I have a bunch of ESP-01 LED controllers, I'm totally gonna do that now. Just gotta figure out how to weatherproof it.

wondering if my gutters are steel.

Are they rusting?

If not, probably not. [1]

[1] To coma, stainless steel is not magnetic.

Well, they're painted. And you'd think that would still mean rust where they were scratched, cut, etc. But OP's magnets stuck to a drip edge, which I wouldn't think would be made out of plain steel either. I'm assuming my gutters aren't ferromagnetic, but I could be pleasantly surprised!

On US homes, drips are typically galvanized steel because they are a commoditized roofing product.

Gutters are usually aluminum because gutters and downspouts are a specialized trade and those businesses fabricate components on-site from aluminum roll stock to correctly fit the building.

The drip edge on the house, some drip edge I just bought for a shed, and a few different types of unused drip edge I've had sitting around for a decade are all non-ferromagnetic. The stuff I just bought at Home Depot even says "aluminum for light weight".

The gutters have seams and weren't formed on site, but are also non-ferromagnetic. So much for the hope of quick and easy mounting.

If I had to guess - while galvanized steel wouldn't rust on its own, it's avoided due to the possibility of being in contact with other metals that would cause it to still rust. Roofing nails are galvanized, but they're supposed to be dry under the shingles.

> For example, nothing stops you from plugging a space heater into the outlet at the end of a string. But relax, it's Christmas!

IIRC because they're designed to chain but not for high power applications, Christmas cords are one of the few extensions which routinely include a fuse[0], usually 2.5 to 5 amps.

So you can plug a space heater at the end of the string, not much should happen.

As opposed to using a 15A extension to plug a 20A device into a 20A circuit, which you can absolutely do, and which will burn your house down.

[0] in the US, as opposed to the UK where everything includes a fuse because ring circuit baby

Hm, I'm reviewing my copy of the 2011 NEC and can't find the part I remember. I swore I recall reading something that basically carved out exceptions for thin wires for long strings of lights, but maybe I'm misremembering.

Of course, manufactured items aren't actually regulated under the NEC, but rather UL/ETL or another NRTL. Which is why you run your nice 10gauge wire for a dryer, then at the junction panel inside it switches over to 14 ga stranded or whatever. They've done the math with power dissipation, higher temp insulation, etc etc. And if it burns down your house you get to sue the manufacturer.

As an aside, it's a travesty that public.resource.org no longer has the building codes available. If the codes are not available for all to read, they cannot be considered binding law.

> For example, nothing stops you from plugging a space heater into the outlet at the end of a string. But relax, it's Christmas

Every string I've seen in the past 30 years or so is fused.

Seems you could use a second pole (and a helper) in place of the hook, for 100% ladder-free.

Of course this all will increase pole-related accidents...

Yeah why not use the eyelet and a 1cent cable tie?

I really don't get the lack of calling this out. I'm ok with a little fudging with outdoor lights but this here doesn't make sense.

Yeah this was the next best option. But I didn’t want to spend any time on the roof and my ladder doesn’t go high enough so went with magnets. Also I wasn’t crazy about having hooks up there all year round, even though I would be the only person to notice them.

The conductors appear to be separately insulated, so this poses no risk. However, it's generally a safe bet that modifying devices or equipment is a no-go. These lights were probably reviewed by a "listing" agency (e.g. Underwriters Laboratories) that's accepted/required by the municipality having jurisdiction and modifying the device invalidates that listing.

It's low risk, but I have to push back against no risk. If someone splits it with a knife there's a plausible chance they nick the insulation by accident.

Yeah, that's fair, but it's low risk if done properly, whereas a lot of the electrical work homeowners get up to introduces risk even if executed as intended :)

>"The carefully split the wire part" in many places has me concerned about electric shock.

Don't worry. The internet virtue point demerits from playing with electricity are cancelled out by the ones you earn from avoiding ladder usage.

Surely that cable is single insulated, so low voltage application (less than 32V)?

Looks like pretty standard “lamp wire” to me. Single insulated and rated for 120v ac.

Splitting the wire is safe if you’re careful but no it’s not code lol. And it’s just one hook at the peak of the roof but it might be possible w/o it. I didn’t need any hooks.

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