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Comment by brightball | Hacker News Reader

IMO the cure for loneliness is probably self fulfilling. The longer you are lonely the more you grow tired of being lonely and decide to intentionally do something about it.

Maybe it’s joining an exercise group, a hobby club, a church, a volunteer group, etc. Maybe it’s trying to work on yourself to achieve a goal or work up the courage to have a conversation with somebody special.

The output of loneliness should eventually be motivation to no longer be lonely and the determination to make it happen. It’s hard, but worth it.

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Maybe you're trying to be helpful or perhaps virtue signalling, but do you seriously believe "joining an exercise group" can cure severe loneliness? We are talking about lack of deep connections to any other human. The type of shallow connections you make in those places is not going to help anyone with real loneliness. Which is a lot more common now.

Sort of agree though I would argue "joining an exercise group" is a healthy way to create shallow connections with the aim that one or more of them becomes deeper. Finding deep connections is difficult and requires significant effort from at least one party. You have to work at it. And attempts to create shallow connections shouldn't be dismissed because you generally can't try to create deeper connections in isolation and separately from trying to create shallow connections.

The difficulty of growing a shallow connection into a deeper connection is a large part of why so many people are lonely. We can't just ignore shallow connections because it's unrealistic to only ever aim for deep connections. Connections are experiments that grow.

yeah like where do people expect deep connections to form from? are they supposed to spring forth, fully formed from the swipe of an app? no! they take work and time and effort and form from shallower connections.

Deep connections evolve from shallow connections, yes?

There's that whole thing about long journeys starting with a single step. Got to start with meeting people somehow.

Why would your connections in an exercise group have to be more or less shallow than anywhere else?

In fact, this recent NYT article was about an exercise group that fosters deep connections: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/24/us/f3-workout-men-texas.h...

(I imagine some might balk and say that's not the type of group that interests them, but it does seem clear that at least for some, an exercise group does help form these connections.)

To make deeper connections, you start with shallow connections.

In school you made friends by first going to the same school so you were around each other long enough to become friends.

It’s the same with anything else. You have to consistently be around people long enough to get to know them well enough to make deeper connections. Inviting them to grab lunch sometime. Go to a movie. Play poker, bowling, golf, etc.

Certain exercise groups are exactly like that. Cross fit groups, F3 groups, etc. They are very social.

Groups that have a schedule and regular attendees are the easiest place to start. At first, you’re going to be the new guy but the longer you attend the more comfortable you’ll be. You have to stick to it.

Probably one of the biggest reasons we see more of it is how much people move around for work, away from their established family and friends. Deliberately solving this is hard since you will always feel like an outsider in a new place.

Deep connections start superficially.

I moved to Bali over 1 year ago, knowing only a single person in the entire island. Now I have dozens of good friends there. And a handful of them I consider really good friends with whom I have a good connection with and shared very intimate and vulnerable moments. These relationships keep growing overtime the more time we spend together.

Some friends I've met at the gym, others were my neighbors, others at BBQs, others at an acting class... The list goes on.

Maybe out of topic, but socializing is a skill. And it's sad some people associate socializing with = people pleaser. Learning to socialize is learning to engage with others and put yourself out there. Whether you do it staying true to yourself or not, that's another thing.

But going back to the main thing: Deep connections don't happen out of thin air, and not without effort.

These expat enclaves are a bit of a fantasy world. They attract like-minded outgoing people eager for adventure and making new friends who all happen to have one big thing in common: they’re Westerners in a foreign land. You’re playing on easy mode ;)

When I was depressed and lonely after a couple years living in LA, I spent a year or so hanging out with Herbalife "health coaches" at the beach. We would play dodgeball, exercise in the sand, then go to a nearby venue and drink $5 protein shakes while they tried to get us to join the MLM scheme. It was a positive experience, despite the connections being mostly shallow. I also lost 40lb and could do 100 pull-ups in a day.

To add to what others said, you will get social skills there. Being lonely for a long time makes you loose social skills. It makes presence of other people very tiring and difficult.

Starting with a shallow place where you can observe how others interact and relearn basic conversation and interpersonal skills help incredibly a lot.

I don't know; I (irrationally) feel like everyone hates me, all the time. My wife, my kids, my parents, my best friend. I'd really love to not feel this way, but it's just the way it is. I've seen therapists, but they're not very helpful. A few of them have been kind enough to point out that this is not true, or logical, so I should not feel this way.

If I could add anything of help I would say to focus on yourself. Self love shouldn’t be underestimated. If people can’t love, like or live with the person you love, there might be an issue with your environment, not you. Anyways hope you find compassion

Without knowing you at all, it’s hard to properly respond to this.

I will say, that it sounds like you have a confidence problem and that you’re projecting it onto people around you.

Talk to your wife though.

Every time I have tried deliberately putting myself out there, in a social sense, I just get my hopes crushed. So now I just focus on the few things that matter to me most in the world and live my life. Sometimes all you can do is stop seeing what isn't there and focus on what is.

It’s not just putting yourself out there though. It’s also figuring out what isn’t working and trying to improve it.

I didn’t write the book on it or anything, but I’ve gone through it in my own life and I know it’s possible. For me I lost weight, got in shape, started dressing more intentionally and then joined a couple of clubs aligned with my interests.

Pretty quickly I discovered which of those groups I felt I fit better with and gravitated more there. Over time, those people became friends outside the group too.

The older you get the more deliberate this process becomes I find.

Haha, it's actually the exact opposite!

The more lonley you are the more you psychologically adapt to it. You reason about or do whatever to make sense of it. Some people want to be alone but no one wants to be lonely. If you are lonely it isn't because you want to be.

The longer you are lonley, the more you need to reason about and adapt and get used to it and you will lose or won't gain neccesary skills, knowledge and character that helps people gain and keep company.

It is similar to how rich people tell poor people to save up, work harder and stop buying avocado toast so they can get rich what you are saying, like they think the poorer you are the more you will get rich or something. Povery is expensive and loneliness likes company.

Generally speaking, it is called the vanishing finish like (I think there is even a wiki page for it). The longer it takes, the longer it is going to take.

People who are unemployed or out of a relationship can also testify to this, the "feast or famine" phenomena where if you already have it, it's easier to have more of it.

Personally, I don't know about a cure but probably the more you realize your mortality and how you need to appreciate now and today, I think that helps get a better perspective and lets you enjoy the few days you have on earth with or without company.

I don’t think loneliness fits in the same category as the rest, but I do agree with appreciating now and today.

Eventually, a person should hopefully realize that the regret from not making that effort is worse than the alternative.

It’s one of the reasons that groups help, especially volunteer or community groups. You’re there for the social aspect but also for the purpose. It helps to have everybody working toward the same goal.

Realizing is one thing, being able to do what it takes to affect change or believing that is even possible is another.

True, but there’s nobody else you can do it but you.

I think that might be one of the author's points. The 'cure' for just as often has been either drugs or alcohol, with former often having often lethal effect. Opiates trigger chemical response similar to affection; it's not terribly surprising so many choose to find comfort at the end of a needle.

I'd worry this falls under the "just can't take it anymore -> breaking point -> do something irrational" chain of events.

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