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Holodomor

en.wikipedia.org

50 pointstareqak13 comments

I recently listened to Behind the Bastards podcast episode 31/32 about this guy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_Lysenko

This guy basically fooled his ways of agriculture and biology, rejecting genetics for decades resulting in Holodomor and many more deaths.

I strongly recommend Timothy Snyder's lecture [1] on this topic (and the whole series in general).

[1] The Making of Modern Ukraine. Class 15. Ukrainization, Famine, Terror: 1920s-1930s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dy7Mrqy1AY&t=1s

Here is a map of countries that recognize the Holodomor as a genocide: https://i.imgur.com/rjEv1XC.png

The famine of the early 1930s in Ukraine and some other territories of then USSR was a natural phenomenon, consistent with the history of every few years bad crops in these highly primitive agricultural territories. Prior to the Soviet rule, public organizations stepped in to help the victims and did so successfully (check the historic records of the Tzarist Russia on the subject). The Soviet rule eliminated such organizations, destroying the social support network for the case of bad crops. However, this is a far cry from deliberate genocide. Ukrainians weaponize this natural disaster to pursue their political goals.

The Ukrainians committed genocide against the Jewish population of Ukraine at least 3 times in the history. These genocides should be recognized by the German government and other international institutions before calling an unfortunate natural disaster genocide.

Is an interesting point of view, but I'm afraid that is missing a few key points

To start I would not define Ucraine's agriculture in the last century as "highly primitive". They were using the same techniques as the rest, but in some of the best black soils of the planet, and with very competitive results that speak by themselves

There is a difference also between

You had a bad crop culturing your land this year, though luck, "unfortunate natural disaster".

versus:

"You don't have any land to culture, because is grabbed now from the Stalin's government" and...

"all the crops from this place big or small are sent now to other places" and...

"An illuminati has been promoted by Stalin [1] to manage this lands"

[1] Lets don't blame the snake oil seller for it, It was directly promoted and supported by Stalin to do the dirt work of systematically pursuing, deporting and killing the real scientists.

And..."He deployed soldiers to block the people to exit their homes and migrate to other areas to save themselves" and...

"While "stubbornly refusing any external offer of humanitary aid that were repeatedly offered", and...

"Even when the first millions of people started to die, Stalin didn't moved a finger to revert the situation or to feed the population"

He purposely let millions of people at their own luck, starving to death confined inside their homes or being forced to eat human corpses to survive.

A few thousands can be killed by wrong choices or bad luck; killing 4-5 millions requires a lot of sustained effort.

Is hard to believe that this was not entirely Stalin's fault or Stalin's carefully deployed plan.

A resolution that will finally classify the Holodomor as a genocide in Germany will be decided on by the parliament in four days, on 30. of November.

It is expected to pass unanimously.

See e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/25/germany-set-to...

Holocaust denial is totally acceptable to the media and the establishment when it comes to the Ukraine Holodomor.

Even typing Holodomor on iOS indicates that the word is missing from the spell checker. It’s shameful.

Sadly time distorts historical grief. Take the Irish potato famine which was an opportunistic genocide by the British. It’s now punchline in jokes. Other example is Romes conquest of Gaul or the Mongolian conquest of anywhere.

I agree, but just want to highlight that Holocaust =/= Holodomor, these were two unrelated genocides.

Wrong. Holocaust is a generic term for mass scale killing or death.

The Jewish holocaust of WW2 by Nazi Germany does not hold a monopoly on holocausts, especially not holocausts such as the Holodomer, 10 years prior perpetrated in part by Jews themselves.

Plenty of Jews were victims of Holodomor. I don't know which Jews you are referring to, but any high ranking Soviets who happened to be Jewish by birth involved in this, had thoroughly discarded their Jewish identity and were ideological Soviets in the extreme.

Is called a red herring. Diverting the focus toward the "but Ucranians are nazis" to be able to flash the antisemitic card against the other part.

A genocide is a crime against humanity. Is not defined as a "better" or "worse" genocide depending on how many Jews were killed on it.

This is a blatant antisemitic lie peddled by the worst genocide committers in the world, namely the Ukrainians. Yes, they are worse than the Germans.

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