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Comment by moonchrome | Hacker News Reader

I used to own a motorcycle and I commute with a bycicle in ~mediteranian climate.

The only two accidents I've ever had on a motorcycle were low speed manuvers in heavy rain when I got caught by a shower.

On a bike just riding on a slippery road is terrible and wading through umbrellas, getting splashed by cars in traffic, rain in the eyes.

Riding on two wheels makes you extremely exposed - ebikes are just shit motorcycles (especially self built ones) and have a higher accident rate statistics from what I can tell.

If you're not aware how risky it is compared to a car you are you are being delusional.

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So you mishandled a motor vehicle that weighs 4-5x, with 100x the power as much as an ebike in the rain, and you commute using a bicycle which explicitly causes the downsides that I avoid using an ebike. I’m not surprised your experience is different

It sounds like your experience is different because haven’t actually tried using an ebike. I used to think that a bike and an ebike were basically the same use case. After having used a bike, an ebike, and a motorcycle for commuting I can say that they are three very different machines.

Please let me know what your experience was commuting in northern bad weather using an ebike before you call me delusional. It sounds like you are extrapolating incorrectly based on inexperience

I actually worked for a company making ebikes for a while so got my chance to try them out - like I said - motorcycle with cheap components, handles better for sure because it's lighter - but it's not built for traffic speeds.

People think because kids can drive it that it's safe - like I've said - quick Google search shows higher accident rate for ebikes than motorcycles ! And we are comparing to cars here - that's like >10x risk increase.

And every self built one I've seen had a way to remove speed limiting block (interested if have yours limited ?). That's a recepie for disaster.

Unfortunately, there are some places where the whole city is delusional, like in Finland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU

It's more like the US is delusional. It was gaslit by General Motors in the 1940s and 1950s.

(Yesterday I watched a youtube called "Retrofuturism", that turned out to be, nearly verbatim, an old propaganda piece by GM. It was only about using cars and roads, not about the future (i.e., our world) at all. Some parts were hilarious, but overall it was deeply depressing.)

I'll be another voice to say you're speaking from a myopic perspective. The Dutch bike through rain, sleet or snow without any difficulty. Modern electric cargo bikes like their favorite, Urban Arrow, are fantastically balanced and need only a trained rider to handle through a wide variety of inclement weather.

Yeah I dunno where they're going with this.

You can ski in the snow perfectly comfortably if properly attired, but you can't bike?

In fairness icy streets can get extremely dicey on two wheels-- no arguments there. The US in particular has a lot more extreme weather than Holland. You'll have extended periods where biking on icy concrete is not a great option.

Icy streets are extremely dicey on 4 wheels as well, except that cars tend to externalize the risk.

I.e. a bike slipping and falling tends to hurt the risk taker. A car slipping and crashing tends to protect the occupant at the expense of whatever gets crashed into.

> Around two-thirds of the 110,000 traffic victims treated in Dutch hospitals in 2021 were cyclists, according to VeiligheidNL.

www.techtimes.com/amp/articles/274249/20220413/e-bike-injuries-rise-despite-safety-precautions-according-dutch-organization.htm

And that's in a place with top tier biking infrastructure.

The victims are cyclists because so many dutch people cycle! (Because the infrastructure is so good)

Per Capita, cycling in the Netherlands is far far safer than cycling in the US.

Yes but far more unsafe than using a car !

> “The Dutch data for last year (2019) shows that in absolute figures more people died in car crashes (237) than on a bicycle (203). If you calculate the figure per kilometre travelled that is reversed. Per one billion kilometres travelled the figure for cycling is 11 while the figure for car occupants is 1.6 fatalities.”

Why do I have to google these self-evident facts ? No matter how good your bike lanes are two wheels are very sensitive and unforgiving and the vehicle offers 0 protection (and in fact gets in the way of softening the landing/balancing back).

The bike enthusiasm seems to override rationality - like if I strapped a child seat on a rear seat of a motorcycle social services would take my child - meanwhile if I do it on an ebike I'm praised for being environmental - despite the similar risk factor.

Cars are far more likely to kill people, and quite a few at once. In fact it is almost certain death if a pedestrian is hit by a speeding car. And if that speeding car collides with another vehicle, there's death abundant.

You're being told repeatedly by Europeans your take isn't right but you keep digging in and entrenching. Why is that? Have you considered you might actually be wrong?

The unsafest I've ever been was commuting between Brooklyn and Manhattan for two years as a cyclist: the number of near misses and actual side swipes (yes from cars) would shock you.

Cause of death counts as well. If I get hit by a car on my bike it is a counted as a cycling injury even though it was a fatal accident because a car was involved.

This doesn't mean much absent ridership statistics.

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