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Comment by Alupis | Hacker News Reader

> We have one side of the story because the other side (huge corporation) didn’t give any information and decided to keep ban. No transparency there.

I'm not sure why we expect Google to provide transparency for CSAM bans/investigations. That would be highly irregular, and not just for Google.

The Dad has legal path(s) to take if he feels he was truly wronged. Paths that would ultimately cost nothing if he prevailed. Paths that would likely force Google to undo their decision if Dad's statements are in fact the truth and Google has no other data/evidence.

Dad chose not do do any of that though... why? I'm confident there are lawyers out there that would even represent Dad for free.

> This phrase used by Russian propaganda when they got caught in crimes every damn time.

What?

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> The Dad has legal path(s) to take if he feels he was truly wronged. Paths that would ultimately cost nothing if he prevailed. Paths that would likely force Google to undo their decision if Dad's statements are in fact the truth and Google has no other data/evidence.

San Francisco Police Department:

> “I determined that the incident did not meet the elements of a crime and that no crime occurred,” Mr. Hillard wrote in his report. The police had access to all the information Google had on Mark and decided it did not constitute child abuse or exploitation.

What more do you want from him Alupis? He was exonerated but you are suggesting he did not "do any of that" (false) to clear his name. Why would you say this given the article already rules it out?

He should use the legal system for what it was designed for - to settle a disagreement as per the ToS for his paid Google One account. The article even says this is an option - but he chose not to pursue it.

Because pursuing it would cost money and time for a service from a company that I'm sure he doesn't want to do any more business with. He's unlikely to get any damages and Google's lawyers will ensure that it takes way too much time.

"If they were innocent, why didn't they sue" is an opinion that is really naive of how our legal system works.

The article is a little clumsy here... they seem to indicate it would have been a lawsuit, but the dollar amount quoted would be more in line with arbitration.

In both cases there's 3 possible outcomes:

1) Google, after reviewing weak and/or zero evidence, backs down and restores the account upon receipt of notice of intent to pursue legal action.

2) Arbitration happens and Google is ordered to back down, restore the account and pay Dad's representation fees.

3) Arbitration happens and Dad loses, which yes would be quite costly.

Only #3 is a gamble, and it seems like Dad has a lot of confidence #3 isn't even a remote possibility. So why would you not pursue legal action?

Given how much attention Dad has received over this, it would be surprising if free representation wasn't throwing themselves at him by now too. Regardless, this is indeed how the legal system works for disputes. He should use it if he really is innocent.

> So why would you not pursue legal action?

Hassle.

Some people would prefer to just have a clean break from any abusive relationship rather than continue to engage in conflict, even if the odds are good they'd win.

You also don't know what else is going on in his life and how much bandwidth he has left. One terminally sick relative is all it'll take for the average person to not want to deal with extra bullshit in their life.

And most people don't have their own personal legal department and may not even know a single lawyer, so they don't have any idea of who to trust. If a dozen lawyers called me up and offered their services the first headache I'm having is that I don't know if any of them are trustworthy, and now I need to waste my time vetting them.

The guy has gone through multiple police investigations - one of which appears to have been voluntary - plus this investigative article piece here. I'd say, from appearances, he's not shied away from attempting to fight this. He even stated in the article it was the money that made him choose not to pursue the legal path (although as previously pointed out, the costs would be free if he prevailed and there's free representation that would jump at the chance to fight cases like this).

So, I don't think hassle can accurately describe this particular case.

He went through multiple police investigations to clear his name of criminal wrongdoing, which has much higher stakes.

If he sues he's likely getting a pittance from whatever the court values his Google account to be worth. In reality this is never going to be a multi-million dollar award.

And I don't know what it is that you imagine he's done wrong which isn't criminal but which would allow Google to defend themselves. If it is anything I think it is more likely that he got legal advice that based on Google's TOS and the things that he agreed to (like we all do every time a legal notice pops up) that his chances of recovering any damages at all were a crapshoot.

We don't need to speculate - the article discusses his legal options. He explicitly chose not to pursue it for what he claims was the cost.

There is no multi-million dollar award - this isn't a TV Show or something.

Arbitration would determine, after examining all facts presented by both parties, if his account should be re-instated. Further, if his account is ordered to be re-instated, he would be awarded "reasonable attorney's fees", which would cover the cost of any legal representation he hired to argue his case.

So yes, he needed to pursue the legal path here, but chose not to. The quoted dollar amount in the article is peanuts, and like previously stated over and over, if he's so certain of his innocence and has all this supporting evidence, arbitration would ultimately cost nothing. ie. there's no reason to not pursue the legal path here.

> if he's so certain of his innocence and has all this supporting evidence

The claim is that he is a child pornographer and has taken sexually explicit photos of children for prurient purposes. There is no evidence of this and if Google had it they should report the evidence.

You instead keep repeating things like "if he's so certain of his innocence and has all this supporting evidence...", implying that since he is not suing Google that there must be something to this.

Your shtick here reminds me of Musk's accusations of pedophilia against Vernon Unsworth.

Really? What kind of paths? Gmail isn't a paid service - you can't force Google to continue providing you with Gmail access if they don't want to, I can't believe any court would agree to such a thing. They reserve the right to terminate your access for any reason,and since you don't have a business relationship with them in this case I wonder what could you possibly claim in front of the judge to make them reverse this decision by law.

This isn't about a free GMail account...

From the article there appears to be an arbitration path (based on the dollar amount quoted in the article, but they talk about it like it would be a lawsuit) - but Dad explicitly chose not to take it for some reason.

It would be very surprising if the ToS for Google Accounts didn't include an arbitration agreement.

Also, Dad had a paid Google One account - filled with apparently lots of data. He definitely has a legal path here and chose not to take it. Why?

Why do you continue to insinuate this man may be a pedophile when he has been completely exonerated?

He was not exonerated, that is not what this word means. The rest of your statement appears to be a straw man, because I have not once stated he is in fact a pedophile.

You continue to insinuate it.

Are there any known examples of people using arbitrage to successfully recover their Google accounts?

Arbitration is not public - so we would never know. That is not unique to Google either, it's just how it works.

My guess would be it happens far more often that you might realize, given Google's scale and breadth of services offered (paid and unpaid).

People have disputes all the time with big companies, and arbitration is how they are normally resolved. Arbitration is designed to 1) usually minimize the public risk to the company in the event of a loss, and 2) make the proceedings far more affordable for all parties involved.

Arbitration carries all the same weight and enforcement of a real lawsuit, but takes less time and is less costly.

>> Dad chose not do do any of that though... why?

It says in the article that would have cost 7k.

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