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Comment by cpsns | Hacker News Reader

> Critical facilities like cellular base stations and data-centers often have an on-site backup generator. These generators have enough fuel to extend the resiliency beyond 24 to 48 hours.

During the 2019 hurricane here in Nova Scotia people stole the fuel (and even a few generators somehow), so don’t even count on that.

We had no internet, cellular, or landline service for days where I live as a result, much less power. The only reliable communication option in a true disaster is as it always has been, amateur radio.

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At my cabin I have starlink, limited solar power and a generator with propane that comes on (power goes out a lot). Eventually I'll run out of propane and food (everyone has some emergency food supply for a few weeks at their cabin, right?), but I wonder how long I'd last with internet plus short trips in my electric car? I never planned for a post-gas future independent of the grid.

Starlink relies on starlink downlinks of course, I assume they'd degrade quickly, do they have generators, and what internet would there be to connect to. But I am independent of the grid for a week at least. There would be a transition period for society. I kind of regret not spending the bigger money for full house solar with battery backup. Then I'd really be in good shape for the end of the world, except for running out of food. And someone coming in and taking it away from me.

Starlink and probably most isps would not last long

I think that last line is really the crux of it. Most of us would survive a “collapse” event exactly as long as it would take for people to get desperate. After that, all the batteries and canned food in the world will do you no good if you don’t have a remote and defensible location, ammunition, and lots of training. I have none of the above, so fingers crossed!

The worst time to do something for the first time is in an emergency.

Definitely a good idea to jump start on some areas that are lacking, no matter how small the steps are they are worth taking.

There is a counter argument out there that individuals/small groups that self isolate during extreme events/collapse of social stability tend to do much more poorly than groups that prioritize mutual aid.

Thanks for bringing that up. I don't remember who said: "The answer is _always_ community."

Everyone who's been through true turmoil knows. Without a "village" around you you're dead. That's literally why villages formed as they did instead of people just spreading out.

This Death Stranding bunker meme is just clueless people playing survival.

All my guns and ammo got lost in a tragic boating accident.

You really shouldn't hunt fish by rifle.

I know. Dynamite works so much better.

>And someone coming in and taking it away from me.

perhaps there's another thing you should invest in. well, unless you're cool with someone coming in and taking everything from you

I imagine in a really long haul disaster, it would really depend on the nature of the local community and your distance from society. If the local authorities want to impose order and redistribute your resources, a single person with a gun (I assume that’s what you mean) wouldn’t realistically be sufficient defense.

If you are far enough out and might only have to scare off, like, an occasional random drifter, that’s another story.

Or maybe you mean they should invest in their community and social network. Being seen as a local or at least familiar, and having a good reputation in the community seems like a really useful thing in this sort of scenario.

> redistribute your resources

that means, "steal".

Sure, I was being euphemistic.

On the other hand, what are you going to do, call the cops? They are the cops.

if the local authorities know they risk getting shot by every local they come to distribute resources from, they're far less likely to think that's a good idea in the first place

Unless they have the heavy weapons and someone with a high ego and determination to use the existing state ressources to become the new local warlord.

That never happens. I mean that always happens. Because we are cultured, democratically minded Americans, we are immune from the human passions that other people suffer from, that desire to take the other person's goodies.

Or, they just treat everyone as 'shoot on sight'.

Verizon is my absolute mad-lad hero in NJ. All of our towers had Natural Gas generators keeping the towers alive during Hurricane Sandy. I lost power and land-based internet, cellular internet and phone calls were alive and well thanks to those generators. Kudos to whatever NG company they used as well.

One thing that stood out to me in this video is that he claimed natural gas infrastructure can't run without electricity. It would seem obvious to me that you would have natural gas powered generators capable of sustaining the gas infrastructure.

I think this is what’s usually referred to as a “blackstart capacity”, and normally grid operators pay/ensure that certain operators maintain that capability.

The issue is that I imagine that just keeping an idle natural gas generator large enough for your pipeline + shipping terminal + whatever is not a trivial cost.

Also, however people test blackstart capacity for contractual purposes, I doubt it's a rigorous quarterly check of "can we start this up without outside support while the grid's massively overdrawn after a disaster of some kind shut us down in the first place?"

Just gotta keep your ham radio go box in an EMP-hardened roll of tin foil and have a good crank generator, and you should be good to go. In a grid outage even tiny transmitter powers will be able to get out. It's most power efficient to use CW (morse code) unless you plant to have a computer up and running to run the even fancier digital modes.

Doing CW QRP at 1 watt in the right conditions will cover a huge distance, especially if the power has gone out. It really doesn’t take much when you get down to the absolute minimum viable setup.

Indeed but at the same time, weapons and ammunition begin to look far more valuable than communication. I'm trying to reason through how valuable information would be in a grid-down scenario. Presumably, all the major roads would have check-points operated by the prevailing authority and would confiscate any valuable goods one learned about over the air. It seems to me that having access to defensible food and shelter is vastly more important over the first period of time until things have stabilized at a new local maximum.

I mean when disaster happens weapons are always a top of list item even above food since they are a means to sourcing it (and not just in a killing animals kind of way).

I would not be leaving my property, I live hours from the nearest city, and 30 minutes from “town”. There would be little benefit for me in attempting to travel. I would still like access to information if possible, buts it’s definitely not at the top of the list.

A shortwave radio will get you info without revealing your location or capabilities.

But I'm still stocked with transceivers for HF, VHF and UHF. 'Cause you may still need to transmit in an emergency or to coordinate friendlies.

Heard the same thing happening during some long post-hurricane power outages in the USVI where my family lives. Generator stolen from the main cell tower for a chunk of the island, very selfish and expected now.

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