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Comment by jimbob45 | Hacker News Reader

400,000 current H-1B visa holders[0] divided by 999 at-risk holders (article describes "hundreds") leaves us with less than 0.25% of the visa-holding population at risk. It's very possible that I'm heavily overstating that percentage. How is this even news?

[0]https://www.stilt.com/blog/2019/04/h1b-visa-holders-in-usa/

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As a citizen, if I get laid off, I get a severance package and support from the state. It is ok if I get laid off. Temporary inconvenience, but family doesn't need to suffer. It is not the case for H1B visa holders.

If H1B visa holder gets laid off, they need to find a job in 60 days. That is a lot of stress. Suppose they find a in different state, they need to move. This is stress for the family and children as well. In the worst case, they may need to leave the country. It is harder, because they need to sell all their properties, move the stuff and relocate the family in an extremely short period of time. I think the H1B rules are draconian.

IMHO, H1B must be reformed or abolished. In the current form, it only benefits big companies to hire great talent for cheap and keep under their control. Similar to bonded labour.

How EXACTLY does it work for someone laid off from Twitter, for example? Does the 60 day clock begin the moment they were "laid off" or the moment severance runs out? Does it matter if the company puts them on garden leave instead of immediate lay-off?

> How EXACTLY does it work for someone laid off from Twitter, for example? Does the 60 day clock begin the moment they were “laid off” or the moment severance runs out? Does it matter if the company puts them on garden leave instead of immediate lay-off?

EDIT: This apparently is wrong, see downthread; the original text below is preserved for context

When they are no longer legally employed, with legal employment including any terminal leave. (But not extended by severance, even if that is calculated based on pay for a particular time period.)

Here have an immigration lawyer here writing[1] it's not the legal employment end date that matters, but the date productive work ended.

But also it's not clear, and it might be the legal employment end date in some cases.

1. http://blog.cyrusmehta.com/2022/11/guide-to-terminated-nonci...

Shit, by that metric for some of the jobs I have had the hire date and productive work ending date are the same.

The thing that grinds my gears (I'm a H1B holder) is that no one really knows the answer to this question, including immigration lawyers who post on linkedin). The general advice is to start the clock the day you are laid off.

I suspect that is true in general - but in the particular of Twitter I wonder if it legally counts as "garden leave" to get around the WARN act, meaning that those people are still "employed" by Twitter for the purposes of the H1B.

It'd be kinda annoying if they could have it one way for the WARN act and it was another way for the H1B.

I think it would be helpful to ask USCIS to develop a clear policy.

The moment they are laid off. The severance is an interesting question, do they even get it?

Anecdata : 20+ yrs ago I worked in US on a H1B. My employer was almost bust due to the telecoms bubble bursting and I got laid off. Got 3 weeks severance pay for 1 yr service - seemed fair at the time given the situation , and dunno what people got when whole company collapsed few weeks later. Was assuming would get kicked out of the country in fairly short time if didn't find a new job. 60 days? Seem to think it used to be shorter than that. So, went to a job fair, did a few interviews. Decided to go and at least see Yellowstone before being kicked outta the country. Went to check email at the library (as one did before smartphones ;) ) There was a job offer, better location and better pay and it ultimately turned out far more enjoyable. Had to drive non-stop all the way back to Seattle to sign paperwork. Then , it was actually a 3 month wait before I could start that new job due to the H1B transfer process being slow, which is kind of ridiculous. Couldn't go back to family in UK for xmas the year as not allowed in and out of country while they doing the paperwork, which was a downer. Wasn't getting paid during that time either. Did volunteer at Snoqualmie pass and went on the hill lots of days which was the silver lining. I have to say, this would be really bad if you have a spouse and kids. I was single at the time, wouldn't wanna put family through that. It also led to a feeling of limbo and ultimately I left the USA because what starts out as a fun adventure ends up after a few years being not so fun anymore having no permanent status. I think that once someone has worked and paid taxes in the US one ought to be treated a little bit kinder. Perhaps the longer you've worked, the longer you should be allowed to stay after being laid off? They should make allowances for people with kids for sure, its wrong to treat kids lie that, must cause a lot of stress for families.

Especially when you consider that because of natal citizenship, you could have come over with a young wife, had a kid, and then been laid off - and your kid is a US citizen!

Hadn't thought of that! That's a massive issue. Arguably the parents should be allowed permanent status then but of course then people will claim there's an incentive for people to come to US and have kid(s). But in a sense, if you've let people in on a highly skilled visa, they're at the age of having a family, they're pretty much guaranteed to be a big net positive for US economy so what's the problem giving them permanent residency... But then one could argue it's unfair not to give the same thing to kids of Mexican parents that entered illegally. But if you did that , that really would be an incentive for half of Mexico to try to come to USA and have a kid. Personally I think that might be a net win for both USA and Mexico, and there's plenty of space in USA, but I guess a lot of Americans would disagree...

The only way to know for sure is to wait after severance runs out and file a transfer to the new company.

If USCIS denies your application, then the 60 day clock starts the moment you stopped working (for Twitter laid off folks, this has already started). If USCIS approves your application, then the 60 day clock begins the moment you stopped being an employee of the company (for Twitter laid off folks, this is January 4).

You know, maybe there's a way.. concurrent h1b. Maybe all the h1bs "unionize" in the sense that they get to work part time for another h1b sponsor (the h1b union). Call this the H1B union corp. That way if they lose their official job, the h1b union they can stay beyond the 60 days to look for work.

I dunno, this would need an immigration lawyer to weigh in on. There's a YC one who appears from time to time.. This could be something YC does which would make startups more attractive to h1bs.

332,000,000 people in the US divided by 999 at-risk holders leaves us with less than 0.0003% of the population at risk.

I don't think percentages are useful here. Hundreds of human beings suffering is something I will always empathize with.

I personally didn't check the numbers, but even if the percentage is "only" 0.25% it gives a strong message to the rest of 99.75% that they should take care and especially that they should not make any fuss at their current job, otherwise they might risk losing almost everything they have built in the US. Not that the great majority of those 99.75% don't already know it.

Related to this, it is high time for this indentured servitude-like legislation to be scrapped for good, but as long as the people affected earn relatively good money I guess we won't see a real move against it anytime soon.

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