Eye of the Beholder: C64 Port | Hacker News Reader

Eye of the Beholder: C64 Port

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117 pointsjoemanaco37 comments

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For those not in the C64 scene. This is an incredible technical achievement to implement on the C64.

A link to a review/video would be much more informative:

"Now, after sixteen years, the finished version is finally coming out later this month. "

https://www.timeextension.com/news/2022/10/new-eye-of-the-be...

Developer YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVWhB_u3PeFPjLJywyDTcOA/vid...

@dang

The conversion of the intro is very good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRsUFxT7eh8

Where does the C64 scene hang out these days?

csdb.dk and lemon64.com

YouTube

Thanks for that introduction to Time Extension. Even better, I'm delighted they still offer an RSS feed.

I bought and played this on GOG. It was pretty good but it was hard for me to remember where I was/had been. I ended up downloading a program that mapped the level as I played it and that helped a lot.

For a modern take on this style of gameplay I'd look at Legend of Grimrock 1 & 2. They are great games

> I ended up downloading a program that mapped the level as I played it

What's the program? I've never heard of something similar, and sometimes I've wondered if they exists :)

Maybe https://ase.zorbus.net/ ?

Note that at least one EOB game (probably all of them) involve teleportation traps that you're supposed to have to catch by watching your compass as you move - an automapper would instantly reveal that you'd been teleported, spoiling the effect.

It's definitely a different experience playing with an automapper. I played the game with grid paper as a kid, sometimes memorizing the easier levels and sometimes laboriously mapping out the levels as I went. I played EOB2 with the maps in the official clue book, only referencing them when I was stuck.

When I played again with ASE, I found that I was mostly staring at the map the whole time - literally playing the game on the map itself. A lot of the magic was gone.

> When I played again with ASE, I found that I was mostly staring at the map the whole time - literally playing the game on the map itself. A lot of the magic was gone.

I find that with modern games a lot - I spend my time looking at the map and not the world in front of me.

There's also a non-free program called Grid Cartographer which is aimed mostly at tabletop game developers, I think, but it can also be used for playing old RPGs. It supports EOB and EOB2 and a few other games.

http://gridcartographer.com/

Grimrock 2 was probably too hard, I have the same problem with a lot of these games I eventually get to a point where I am aimlessly doing things that may work or things I've missed and after several hours I either give up or check on-line for a cheat. It would be good if there was some code looking for this or a timed thing which drops a hint in-game to make the task more obvious to get to the next step

It was not easy, though I didn't find it too hard. Possibly only the desert and a place with lots of walking mushrooms were challenging. I think it was still possible to find a quiet corner to rest in both. Running away also worked :)

It was hard for me too. I remember spending hours drawing immense maps... on the other hand a gifted friend of mind had no problem finding his way through the mazes.

The C64 version is dual screen with automapper:

https://www.timeextension.com/news/2022/10/new-eye-of-the-be...

I think that one is C128 only.

I played EotB about 2 years ago for the first time and stubbornly did it the old fashioned way with groh paper.

Definitely recommend anyone trying it out to use The All-Seeing Eye to automap instead.

> I played EotB about 2 years ago for the first time and stubbornly did it the old fashioned way with groh paper.

So it didn't add anything to the experience do it the hardcore way?

but with automap you miss out on looking down to draw the crossroad you are at only to look up and see a big ass spider poisoning you

I loved Grimrock. Have there been any similar games of comparable quality released since Legend of Grimrock 2 in 2014? I haven't found any that I could get into.

There is Vaporum which I myself actually liked better then Grimrock itself.

> It was pretty good but it was hard for me to remember where I was/had been.

Back in those ancient times you were supposed to have grid paper and pencil ready to draw the map yourself while exploring :)

I have fond memories of playing this with a friend - taking turns mapping and controlling the game. So much grid paper :) That, and cleaning up the maps when you ended up walking off the edge of the paper (most levels would fit on one to two sheets of a4 grid paper IIRC - but only if properly centered).

There were also maps floating around on usenet(?) and walk-through published in magazines.

I can't quite get over how good this looks....on a C64! This is one hell of an accomplishment. Honestly I expected to barely recognize the game, but instead it looks and feels exactly like the original VGA version I played as a kid - just with what looks like a dither filter over the original graphics (which look amazing I might add). Wow, seriously impressed. How is this possible in 64K of RAM?

> How is this possible in 64K of RAM?

The game requires "a cartridge such as an Ultimate II+, Backbit, Easy Flash 3, etc. due to its size. You will also be able to play it via VICE." [1]

[1] https://theoasisbbs.com/retrobits-preview-of-eye-of-the-beho...

Not familiar enough with the C64 to know what this means, but I'm assuming it means it "needs a little something extra" than a stock C64?

> The C64 version has been in development for 16 years. The primary developer is Andreas Larsson along with a handful of other developers and people from the demo scene.

Wow, the stamina here is amazing... 16 years? I have a hard time keeping side projects going for 1-2 years.

The stock C64 came with an extension slot that allows you to plug in extra hardware - some games, for instance, you could buy as a cartridge (instead of a disk or tape) that got plugged into that slot.

At first I did not understand if and how they managed to fit a running game into 64K. My original thoughts were that a memory expansion would be required.

But now that the source and release are available it makes sense - the game runs on/as a cartridge, which means that static data can be pulled almost as fast as if it was in memory.

It is nevertheless an outstanding achievement, the graphics are simply stunning, and the automapping feature is a nice addition. And it still all fits into 1 MB (IIRC the original PC game came on two disks)!

More info, including a direct download link to the .crt file here: https://csdb.dk/release/index.php?id=226060

Very impressive. I only played EoB II: Darkmoon growing up, but the engines looked pretty similar.

Was there a DOS source leaked somewhere, or was this completely reverse-engineered from scratch?

I believe they only used the tiles (graphics) of the DOS version and re-implemented the game engine from scratch.

The engine was completely reverse-engineered for the C64 (after first gaining expertise by creating an iOS version), and the project seems to have been in progress in some form or another since 2006.

Based on the news I've read in Indie Retro News, it actually sounds like the art is completely done from scratch. (which makes some sense, given C64 graphics quirks/limitations). Though the exact art process hasn't been revealed, art duties were split amongst a few notable C64 pixel artists who have explicit credit for their contribution.

So, near as I can tell it's 100% reverse-engineered from scratch. (early screenshots and dev info here: https://www.indieretronews.com/2022/09/eye-of-beholder-c6412...)

Holy shit! This is one of the most impressive things I’ve seen in a long time.

Note the development toolchain, at https://hub.docker.com/r/jackasser/boozify

Just in time after finishing recapping my C64C! Thanks form this!

Chapeau!

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