Beside embedded system or firmware, what are Forth's popular use cases these days?
Personally I never see backend development or mobile frontend job vacancies that require Forth skill, for example.
Personally I never see backend development or mobile frontend job vacancies that require Forth skill, for example.
IMHO opinion Forth is hard to learn, takes more effort to bootstrap your project (more like Assembler) and more importantly it is hard to switch gears to think with Chuck Moore's methodology. However once learned it can make one very productive.
Forth was (is?) used for experimental control in the ISS quite regularly. The ability to wip up a simple DSL that talks directly to hardware and will compile or can be used as a script is a win for those custom projects.
It's running in the FEDEX handheld package scanner from what I understand. (may be dated information) Funny story that. Way back, Version I was started in C but they hit the ROM size limits on the hardware that was already finished. Forth Inc. was asked if they could help. Using their Forth RTOS they re-wrote it and it all fit with room to spare. (Indirect-threaded-code is tight)
Years later, Version II hardware was designed with waaay more memory. Re-write in C fit nicely. All good.
But... the batteries would not last for an entire shift. Forth Inc was brought in again and they own their task scheduler so they modified it to put the CPU to sleep at every chance they could. Batteries lasted.
Largest known Forth program is on Windows. https://ribccs.com/candy/ 1M+ LOC. Compiles with VFX Forth by MPE UK.
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It allows you to train yourself to have a complete control and command of your code making for tighter, simpler solutions for complex problems ( In my personal experience and comments for those that have been introduced to FORTH.)
If you consider that Embedded is a highly constrained resourced environment, then FORTH is a fantastic choice. Now step back, consider that statement once more, and you could be onto something even greater, as there is lots of resource waste-gates on modern OS and Computers. Now that Power is becoming a greater constrain resource, there might be an opportunity for someone to build something great in forth.
BTW the biggest back en used case is the bitcoint smart contract which is based on FORTH.
As you can see, and in full agreement in your statement, FORTH is a not a job magnet, IMO, you get better at programing understanding FORTH.
See Bret Victors talk, https://youtu.be/PUv66718DII you most of that already @ Forth ...! :;
Try it, you'll never go back! :)
Modern cars don't have a magneto or carburettor, but you'll have a far better ability to fix your Jag if you also know how to fix your lawnmower.
Isn't assembly fit the place better?
:)
Python is an enormously complex language, full of inconsistencies and bad design. However, it masks that complexity behind a facade of user-friendliness which has done wonders for its popularity. Forth is not only as simple as it gets, but also an elegant and totally honest language. That Chuck Moore managed to distill the essence of programming in this form, speaks to his genius. Unfortunately, as is often the case with genius, it can be decades to centuries until the ideas percolate and emerge in a popular fashion.
Really? You don't look at the stack machine that runs the .pyc files and go "jeez this is just Forth with some syntactic sugar on"?
No, because stack machines, including stack machines for use as interpreters of compiled languages, pre-date Forth by many years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stack_machine