Response to 'I'm turning 30 and I've produced no amazing art' | Hacker News Reader

Response to 'I'm turning 30 and I've produced no amazing art'

splinter.com.au

77 pointschubs26 comments

...my first app, which allows you to enter your 20 favourite recipes. It will then choose a week’s worth of dinners at random, and compile a combined shopping list for you, and let you tick off the items as you purchase them. Now the market has decided that this idea isn’t worth paying $1 for. [...] I can only conclude – the idea sucked.

This actually doesn't sound like a bad idea at all, and would definitely be something I'd get if I stopped working late and started cooking more. Anyhow, a good idea and a strong implementation do not guarantee success.

I'd guess one reason it didn't sell well is because nobody thinks to themselves "Oh, I need an app that randomly picks meals I already know how to make and gives me a grocery list." Rather, this is an app that people will stumble upon and decide whether they think it is useful or not. Perhaps the missing ingredient for this app's success was neither idea nor execution, but rather marketing and a bit of well-timed publicity.

Edit: Found the app (http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/random-chef/id438618418?mt=8&...), and I would double down on my wager that it is a marketing/presentation problem: those first 2 screens definitely do not look very appealing. I'd scratch the paper texture--or if you really do want a paper texture, use something that you'd actually write a grocery list on, and not an ancient manuscript. The multiple different fonts throughout the app don't help with the readability or the presentation. Anyhow, the idea still sounds good, but how do you expect people to think it is well implemented when the first two pictures they see look like a mess!

(OP here) Yup, that's the app - surprised you found it!

Hmm... If you think all it needs is a visual makeover and some marketing, how about I give you the source code and remove my version from the app store, and you can make it over and see how you go? If you have some success, all i want is for you to give me some marketing tips, let me know what you did that worked. Anyone up for this? My email's on my blog.

I would hope he found it!

A good app should be easily discoverable. Like if I plug in grocery list, dinner, automatic, or some combination thereof it should pop up everywhere.

Execution doesn't mean just coding something out and deliverying it. Execution means marketing, sales, business process, documentation, team building, and on and on.

Just like an idea is about vision, dream, purpose.

Yep, I couldn't find it by searching on iTunes, so I used your blog's search engine (and found it after a couple different tries).

I am a programmer like you, but if I can come up with some ideas for a cohesive strategy for your product, I'll shoot you a note!

I'm not the person you've replied to, but I've shot you an e-mail. Currently I'm doing a facelifting to a couple of apps and I can try taking yours for a spin as well :)

Many here like/love the idea, me included, so I think you have the good idea.

The execution that would make the idea successful though is not just getting the app written and posted to the app store — contact someone who makes cooking books and do some cross-promotion / integration, a supermarket, etc. — that part is hard, but also necessary if you want to really succeed, and that’s why many say ideas are worthless and execution is everything.

Adding to promotion is of course making sure the application is easy to use, appealing, comes with recipes I actually will like, are easy to follow, use ingredients available from the normal store, etc. — that’s another part of execution.

I was going to say the same thing regarding this app. I love cooking but I absolutely hate figuring out what to make for dinner to the point where I sometimes avoid making anything beyond pasta. Something that makes the decision for me is appealing.

So there you go: the target audience has grown by one.

Argh! It's always the same story with most of my apps: Usually people say 'thats a great idea, i'd totally buy that', but without marketing, nobody knows about them. And so they sit, gathering virtual dust on the shelves of the app store.

I've tried google ads, i've tried engaging on forums, but nothing seems to get anywhere. Any suggestions appreciated!

Honestly, I think that's just the normal scenario for niche apps. You have a product that people react to in one of two ways: "why would I ever need that?" or "holy crap, that's exactly what I need." If the number of people in group two is small enough, you have an enormous obstacle. It's not enough to just solve a problem. You have to solve a problem that enough people have.

Anyway, if I think of a better response/solution than "it is what it is", I will be sure to let you know. Good luck in the mean time.

Google ads on the content network, only on sites that you add, and start off with foodie sites.

Problem with the search network is that you need to target people who match your offing closely and it's very hard to do that when you don't know if the user 1) has an iPhone, 2) cooks, and 3) wants help deciding what to cook. So a normal 1% clickthrough rate would likely end up much lower than that unless you hit on some awesome uncompetitive keywords that match exactly what your app does, for the right target market.

At least with the content network, you can target foodies, and maybe some pages mention iphones and recipes so you can target those accurately. Some work involved, but that's how I'd do it.

Other thoughts:

You're calling it Random Chef. That doesn't reaaally solve the problem of the user. A casual scanner might think 'throw in random ingredients' or make some similar non-connection to what the app does. Their problem (or solution) isn't 'randomness', it's deciding what to make. So maybe 'menu decision maker' or 'recipe suggestion box' or 'chef's recipe suggestions' or something that a person who is reading a list of app names says 'that's exactly what I need!' because it hints at solving the problem they have.

Another thought: maybe the 'benefit' isn't the decision making, it's the more interesting menu. I know people who will order the same things from the store each week just so they don't have to think about it. That'll get boring after a while, so your app helps to make it less boring. Maybe add a checkbox for 'standard' recipes, and those make up the bulk of the recipes each week so everybody is happy, and throw in a new one once/twice a week just to grow the collection without making them think through each meal every day.

In any case, your idea of 1-month apps is a great one. Nice work!

Personally, I think your app requires too much effort. Aside from the 14 included recipes, it sounds like I have to find and input my own. If I tell people that my problem is I can't figure out what I want to make, and I would love a solution, it means that I would love a solution without having to even create my own recipes. Just push out recipes to me based on my tastes.

Yeah, this would be a killer app if interfaced with some online recipe repository (there are several), but then it would require some additional UI to weed out recipes based on individual requirements ("too hard", "too slow", "not vegetarian" etc).

Now I'm tempted to go write my own webapp to do that, lol :D

I have to agree, my wife would love this. If it was on Android you would have definitely get a sale from my household.

Maybe I should add something similar on my Android todo list :)

Nice if it integrated with an online supermarket, so the shopping was done and delivered for you. Also, help you stick with it, if it required discipline/commitment, e.g. to diet, economize, enforce variety, or learn to cook - perhaps that's a user-problem/need it could be presented in terms of.

A bit bizarre though; your iPhone tells you to make a sandwich.

Sorry just thinking aloud here: if it used an online database (perhaps social/collaborative), you could specify criteria (cheap/diet/interesting) - it would select, plan and shop for you, like an active recipe book. Of course, with social, you could select for most popular, rising, new etc. And have some very interesting culinary experiences. i.e. ask what people actually want from a recipe book (what need they are trying to get met through the book, not what a recipe book currently is), and see if you can serve that better in some way.

I had always assumed that "execution" incorporated more than the act of getting a program functional.

You can imagine another version of YouTube with the exact same functions and launched at the same time that never quite took off. I would blame such a failure as an execution failure, not an idea failure.

Maybe working on 10 apps in the past year is another factor. Would really pushing 1 or 2 of those apps and iterating and improving on them been more fruitful?

To consider "executing well" as getting to a functional piece of software is a very narrow programmer point of view, and not a business/entrepreneurial point of view.

Concluding that ideas are as valuable as execution because two poorly executed (but still executed) apps performed better than well executed seems to assume that everyone with the same idea could execute at all.

One surely has higher odds if success, if they were to execute every idea, without evaluating its value, than someone with perfect ideas but no ability to execute.

I got more out of this post than the original post but this post wouldn't have been written if not for the original post. I think the author of the original post just needs to build some of his ideas with the capacity and attenion span that he currently has, and good things will happen, and he'll get the practice he needs.

Pity those of us who have neither ideas, nor the ablity to execute them.

As long as you never get the idea that you could get ideas, you can live a happy life...

Indeed. My misery comes from one brilliant idea after another, only to see each one on store shelves 6 months later without my involvement (and nary a notion of how to start).

Both ideas and ability can be developed through hard work. Ability comes through effective practice; ideas pop-up naturally as you're exposed to new systems, and think "I could do this better".

Just by reading hacker news daily, you will build up ideas and skills (to build skills I recommend going through the more tutorial-based posts on HN). Most people don't even know what HN is, so you're already a step ahead of them.

I'm guessing you're into programming so pick a few languages and learn them in your spare time - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/194812/list-of-freely-ava...

For idea development, keep reading posts on HN, TechCrunch, GigaOM, VentureBeat, etc. Spend a few minutes daily writing down words / trends you notice for startup ideas / startups that are doing well and others that are doing bad. As you do this more and more, you'll start to notice really great trends, and you can iterate on them. Also for ideas, go through your day and write down every pain point on a sheet of paper (the writing part is important, typing it in isn't as useful!). As you build up both pain points and trends, you'll get the hang of mixing / mashing ideas!

I find HN, Techcrunch are great for technical trends. But in terms of ideas, I find "regular" forums to be a better bet. Reason is b/c you want to create something that targets a bigger audience. So I would recommend broadening your horizons, hang out in places like CafeMom, Pinterest, Sparkpeople, etc.

Go thru the grocery store, or a souvenir shop, or even watch ads on TV. Look real hard at what's selling: much of it is paltry rehashes of old ideas (or outright crud) executed with little more than sheer will.

I watch little TV or other ad-driven media. I was amazed, after a long absence, by a movie-preceding ad for macaroni and cheese. 90 seconds of big-screen viewing time, produced at a cost of millions of dollars for...cheap pasta and powdered cheese food? That's not ideas, that's not execution per se, that's sheer force of will. Ditto for cheap trinkets sold anywhere. Ditto for frigging Spongebob Squarepants. That's hiring an accountant and an ad director and filling in the blanks they give you.

As I wrote in the prior thread: pick something and do it. It's not about brilliant ideas or clever execution, it's being relentless.

If you take a moment to watch an entire episode of Sponge Bob Squarepants, you will discover that it's is a brilliantly crafted show. For one, it layers humor for three target age-groups. Kids love it, but it's also full of sexual innuendo for their parents. And like all shows in the Nickelodeon tradition, it seems to be written primarily for stoned young men aged 12 to 25.

... or by stoned young men aged 12 to 25.

Seriously though, it pales in comparison to its stylistic forefather Ren & Stimpy, but it's still a really solid show.

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